Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2022 December 17

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The result was delete. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:52, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Bigel (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Looks to fail WP:NACADEMIC. Previous prod in 2018 Carver1889 (talk) 22:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete. Neither his Google Scholar citation record nor his academic profile [1] show anything that could plausibly be used to pass WP:PROF. —David Eppstein (talk) 23:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. No pass of WP:Prof. Xxanthippe (talk) 23:42, 17 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]
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• Delete doesn't pass PROF and I didn't find GNG-level sourcing. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 16:09, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: No indication of meeting WP:NPROF, as he had low citation numbers and no high academic position. Curbon7 (talk) 16:24, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete fails WP:NPROF and WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of television channels in Pakistan. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:43, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

SAB TV Pakistan (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Minor channel, completely unsourced, I didn't find adequate sources demonstrating notability per WP:BEFORE, only trivial mentions and routine announcements, e.g., 1 (this might be an Indian instead of Pakistan version, though I'm unsure), 2. I purpose a redirect to List of television channels in Pakistan (note:my previous WP:BLAR was contested). VickKiang (talk) 21:40, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Redirect to List of television channels in Pakistan. This channel has no independent media coverage whatsoever. Insight 3 (talk) 04:43, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to List of television channels in Pakistan per Insight 3. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:08, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to List of television channels in Pakistan per Insight 3.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:10, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 21:44, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Beneath Oblivion (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Doesn't appear to meet WP:MUSICBIO or WP:GNG. Has been in CAT:NN for almost 13 years. Boleyn (talk) 21:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - Not notable due to lack of coverage. MaxnaCarta (talk) 02:31, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I was able to find a PopMatters review [2] and a local newspaper profile [3] but that's it. Had I found one or two more better sources I'd say it passes GNG, but I think it falls short. Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs ^talk 16:28, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: NN band, fails all elements of WP:BAND, a heap of unreliable/promotional/threadbare sources. Ravenswing 19:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete fails WP:MUSICBIO or WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:11, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. ^Complex/_Rational 21:07, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Laureta Temaj (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails GNG with very little coverage aside from routine match reports. Avilich (talk) 21:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - nominator appears to be correct. I found Neckar Chronik and DVHN and a few other mentions but nothing substantial. Probably WP:TOOSOON. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 21:05, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

White Tanzanians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Procedural nomination. There was RfD consensus in 2020 to restore this article and not have it redirect to Demographics of Tanzania, which does not mention white Tanzanians. Several editors have nonetheless attempted to restore the redirect, contrary to that consensus, and have declined to take it to AfD as is the correct procedure; thus I am bringing it here without an opinion of my own. Courtesy pings @Rsk6400, Scope creep, Thryduulf, and Narky Blert:. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete I don't doubt that this is a notable topic, but I can't find sources to support that. This is basically an unsourced sub, I'd like to see it expanded but I can't find the sources to do that. Oaktree b (talk) 01:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. TY for the courtesy ping. I !voted for restoration in the 2020 RfD, because RfD should not be used to delete content. Well, that was two years ago; Demographics of Tanzania#Ethnic groups is 2 lines long, a worthless target; and the article in issue is still unsourced. No prejudice against keeping or recreation if sources are found.

Note. I have restored Whites in Tanzania as a retarget to the article in issue, and not to Demographics of Tanzania, in accordance with the 2020 RfD; it had become a WP:DOUBLEREDIRECT. If this article goes, a bot should sweep up the dangling redirect. Narky Blert (talk) 07:10, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The only source mentioned in the article is a book about writer Godfrey Mwakikagile, who is certainly no White Tanzanian. Searching that book on Google Books[4], I didn't find any results to back up anything in the article. Rsk6400 (talk) 07:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Probably notable but not fitting to stay on at the moment. Willing to change my vote if sources are found. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:12, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete the nominator is correct. Lightburst (talk) 04:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. RL0919 (talk) 21:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Egzona Zeka (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG. Avilich (talk) 20:55, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Fails WP:GNG, as I cannot find any sources. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:15, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - after plenty of searching, I found Zeri but even this is far from enough for GNG Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:14, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 05:45, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Aimo Vartiainen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non notable olympian Avilich (talk) 21:08, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Weak keep [5] Whole in-depth article about him in Finnish newspaper a few years ago. [6] Small bio on him at Finnish Alpine Ski Legends. We might have the wrong birthday, though, at least if he celebrates in the right month ([7]). There are other passing mentions, mostly Finnish; I think the level of detail of that first one should be suitable for notability requirements, though. Kingsif (talk) 03:15, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I am leaning to delete if there is only a single source for significant coverage. The first source appears more of a public interest story. KeepItGoingForward (talk) 10:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Here's what I say: if we've got one very in-depth article on a successful athlete from a long time ago, and if just about all of the sources that would have covered him are not available (because he's foreign and pre-internet), we should be able to keep. BeanieFan11 (talk) 17:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - While offline and non-English sources would be sufficient, hypothetical ones do not count. A quick search of the Finnish National Archive's newspaper archive (incl. the papers still under copyright) only really shows a bunch of passing mentions in routine sports coverage. The Lapin Kansa story is good, but one source does not multiple (WP:NBASIC/WP:SPORTBASIC) make. The single para at ski.fi doesn't change that calculus much. If someone can locate another good source (along the lines of Lapin Kansa in depth, I'd happily change my !vote, but as it is now, I don't see this reaching notability. -Ljleppan (talk) 09:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I find that Vartiainen is discussed from page 202 to 235 of the 1969 Finnish book "Suomen hiihdon historia 1886-1968" (History of Finnish Skiing 1886-1968) - I can only access the index, however. If someone has a nearby Finnish library, perhaps they could advise if the coverage is sufficient? Still looking. Kingsif (talk) 19:48, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Another in-depth article, here, in the tabloid Iltalehti. A passing mention here also says he was Finland's first Olympic alpine skier, FWIW. Kingsif (talk) 19:55, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There seems to be a copy of Suomen hiihdon historia 1886-1968 in the stacks of the city library nearby, I'll try to take a look tomorrow but can't promise anything.

The Iltalehti article seems long enough. Good finds. I'll change my !vote to neutral for now and revise after getting access to that book. Ljleppan (talk) 21:50, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - There are two rather lengthy newspaper sources, and a smattering of smaller sources. I took out the Suomen hiihdon historia 1886-1968 book, and while it doesn't contain extensive prose about the subject, it adds to the pile of shorter references. It's a bit borderline, but I'm leaning keep at the moment. For the reference, here's the gist of what Suomen hiihdon historia says:

• p202: Won Finnish slalom championship (youth) 1944
• p208: Won Finnish slalom championship (youth) 1947
• p217: top-3 in slalom at Lahti Ski Games 1949; Top-4, perhaps 1st (it's a bit unclear) at fi:Puijon hiihtokilpailut that same year.
• p223: 2nd in men's slalom, 1951 (I understood this to mean the Finnish championship, but the book refuses to explicitly say these things)
• p235: pictured, described as one of the two best Finns in slalom in 1950s. The other one pictured (also referred to as top-2) is Pentti Alonen.
• p327 (table): 3rd in men's slalom in 1948 and 1949 in Finnish ski championship ("Suomen hiihtomestaruuskilpailut")

Perhaps someone can integrate that into the article. -Ljleppan (talk) 13:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Ljleppan: Thanks for the summary, it will probably bulk up on the career facts. I may have time to work on the article later today and see how it looks incorporating the sources found. Kingsif (talk) 16:47, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Clearly has suitable sources, with some longer ones and shorter ones, nonetheless qualifies for an article. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:15, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:30, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Pentti Uusihauta (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Non notable olympian Avilich (talk) 21:06, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Comment Regularly competed in Finland in the 40s and 50s, if we can dig up the sources used in the Finnish Wikipedia article, we might be able to see if his national achievements meet GNG. Kingsif (talk) 03:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 20:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - The fi.wp sources are not great. Based on the name, the Siukkonen book (Urheilukunniamme puolustajat – Suomen olympiaedustajat 1906–2000) sounds like it contains a short description of literally every olympic athlete in Finnish history. It might be fine, but I'd expect it to be a rather short entry. The Tilastopaja website (again, based on the name: transl. "statistics hut" or something like that) is presumably just stats. A search of the Finnish National Archive's newspaper archive doesn't surface much of interest. This article by Hufvudstadsbladet and this article from Helsingin Sanomat (both still under copyright, so access only with a researcher account) are a good examples: a few hits for the name, but the content is just your bog-standard sports event coverage without going to the subject in any real detail. There might be additional sourcing, but we generally disregard hypothetical sourcing in these discussions. Please ping me if further sources are identified, and I'll happily reconsider. -Ljleppan (talk) 09:20, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep with the possibility of it being merged into Twitter suspensions or another broader-scope article in the future.

Well, that was a lot to read! In terms of numbers, the most common position in the discussion was Keep, and there was also a very substantial contingent for Merge. Overall, despite a strong Delete contingent early in the discussion, most participants did not want this material to be completely deleted. (The semi-protection of this page a few hours in probably impacted that.)

With that said, AfD closure is not just about counting; the strength and policy-relevance of the arguments also matters. However, that doesn't change the result. Looking at policy relevance actually weakens the Delete side, as quite a few comments were transparently motivated by off-wiki sociopolitical concerns, some to the point that I just wrote "non-policy" when making my notes on the discussion. There was some of this on the Keep side also, but it seemed to be about twice as common among the Deletes. The real battle for argumentative superiority was between the Keep and Merge positions. The typical Merge position took account of the WP:NOTNEWS concerns of the Deleters, but also recognized that there is plenty of significant coverage to justify having some content about this on Wikipedia. However, there was less agreement about where a merge might be appropriate, and concern about how much material should be merged, with several Merge commenters emphasizing their desire that it be a limited amount of material. These divergences weakened the case for a Merge consensus, and Merge overall had fewer supporters than Keep, even with second choices taken into account. (Perhaps if more Delete commenters had supported Merge as an alternative, it would have pulled ahead, but only a few of them did that.) About a dozen Keep commenters did add some version of "for now", indicating that a merge should be considered later when there is more perspective on the place of this event in the bigger picture. Some others argued specifically against a merge, saying there is enough content to justify a WP:SPLIT of a subtopic. (The best single comment to read about Keep vs. Merge is the relatively thorough analysis of User:Vanilla Wizard.) Based on all of that, I'm closing as Keep, with an extra note about the future possibility of a merge. RL0919 (talk) 01:00, 25 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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December 15, 2022 Twitter suspensions (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

WP:10YT, WP:PAGEDECIDE, WP:NOTDIARY etc. this should be a single sentence on the Wikipedia page of Twitter or so rather than a bloated mess based on "breaking news" articles. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 20:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC) addendum: cf. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Gosar Twitter video incident for discussion and consensus/decision on a similar incident. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 21:18, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete these Twitter accounts getting suspended does not deserve its own seperate article. BlueShirtz (talk) 20:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Agreed. This tempest in a teapot does not need a memorial stone. Rekleov (talk) 01:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia is overly controlled by mainstream media. delete this trash WrightyTighty (talk) 08:55, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The biggest concern I have with this article is the obvious conflicts of interest. How many of the cited articles were written by colleagues or associates of the banned journalists? The only benefit of keeping this article would be as a case study into why Wikipedia is not trustworthy as a primary source. Tonedebone (talk) 13:02, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  This comment goes against Talk page guidelines [[8]], specifically Be Positive, Stay Objective, and Deal with Facts. You've been warned multiple times ([[9]]) about making unconstructive edits on Wikipedia.--Fogsparrow (talk) 17:11, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Disagree with this AfD nomination. This is about more than just some random account suspensions, and can't be summarized in a single sentence. The Thursday Night Massacre involves free speech issues, Elon Musks' relationship to journalists and the political system, social media moderation ethics, etc. The story is also still ongoing. Important enough to keep for now and wait and see how the story evolves, and what the lasting impact and importance is. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 20:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  They've all been reinstated. Why weren't mass permanent suspensions of high-profile conservative accounts given its own separate article? 175.136.139.226 (talk) 20:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Would you please reference which conservative accounts you are talking about? What were the grounds for suspension in these cases? Some specifics would be useful. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 20:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I mean, Trump doesn't have his own article. And his suspension was commented on by many heads of states around the world. 175.136.139.226 (talk) 21:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Much of that is contained in Social media use by Donald Trump. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  His suspension does not have a singular, separate article, even though it was important enough for many heads of states to comment on it specifically. 175.136.139.226 (talk) 21:05, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Given this was a distributed ban of many journalists, there is no equivalent means of documenting the event outside of adding entries to each individuals' wiki page. This seems unnecessarily noisy and difficult to follow.--Fogsparrow (talk) 17:25, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Move or Redirect Tons of high-profile social media accounts, most notably conservatives, have been suspended in the past few years. No seperate articles for these because WP:NOTNEWS. Move it to Twitter, or the Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk article. 191.54.178.56 (talk) 20:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Perhaps "tons" were deleted or suspended, but they were done on individual bases for specific reasons that violated various things (although who knows what blanket "conservative" accounts you're referring to). But this was a whole batch deleted arbitrarily by the man who bought Twitter apparently because he didn't like them, all after repeatedly talking about being a free-speech absolutist. This definitely deserves an article. This is important and far too much information to sum up in brief paragraph about Twitter or Musk in those articles. Also, you're the one bringing "conservative vs. liberal" ideals into this discussion. The assumption a reasonable person could make was that you're claiming that Musk deleted liberals, so there! Hardly what's going on, and hardly constructive. This has nothing to do with political ideals, except for perhaps conservatives (that you have not named) violated standing rules, where liberals (as implied) did not, which would imply that someone earned deletions, where the current massacre victims appear to have not earned them. Indy (talk) 16:17, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  And why is it the angriest folks in these discussions are identifiable only by IP addresses? Indy (talk) 16:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - oh for fick’s sake, if “Twitter files” deserves an article then so does this. Probably even more. Volunteer Marek 20:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  in response to this and the first IP above. cf Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Gosar Twitter video incident. If there is a "need to see" whether this will have any lasting impact, that just means there's no lasting impact visible right now. and so, no need for a separate article. if it does turn out to be independently notable in the future, the page can always be excavated from the history. as for Twitter Files, while I personally don't agree these are similar, the policy WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS—feel free to AfD that too. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 20:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  There clearly is visible impact right now though. Several interviews with journalists have discussed a chilling effect on free speech. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 20:53, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  First off, I'm not sure why you keep ending your sentences with "cheers!". It comes off as condescending. Second, as all but one of the journalists' accounts have been reinstated, I'm not sure as to where the "chilling effect on free speech" would be. 108.51.103.205 (talk) 21:21, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Twitter files has sustained coverage. It takes a crystal ball to determine if this will. schetm (talk) 20:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. It has sustained coverage among crazy people. This is obvious much bigger if for no other reason than the fact that the people that got banned get to write stories about it in major outlets. Volunteer Marek 20:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Politico, New York Times, NPR, New York Magazine, etc. Yup, only crazy people have provided sustained coverage of Twitter Files. schetm (talk) 20:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You referenced sustained coverage. Those outlets reported on it when it first happened. Now? It’s just wacky ass conspiracy sites that can’t let it go for the most part. Volunteer Marek 21:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's happened again today and has been reported on, it's at least 3 days worth of coverage now. Oaktree b (talk) 22:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I believe internal documents regarding actual administrative decisions are markedly more important than some suspensions. Wikipedia is (whether intentional or not) blowing the issue way out of proportion, as are other news media sites. 108.51.103.205 (talk) 20:52, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Coordinated attacks on journalists (changing the rules to make them in breach of sharing...publicly available information) and consequently also the foundations of democracy on a major global platform seems to be....important enough to talk about. 69.159.86.214 (talk) 20:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Coordinated attacks? This entire event was just Musk having an outburst. As of right now, both Spaces(which were removed ostensibly because he was being criticized in them) and the accounts have been restored. In two weeks people will have moved on. 108.51.103.205 (talk) 21:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  All the accounts have been reinstated. What are you on about? 175.136.139.226 (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Please discuss the article to be deleted, citing why it doesn't follow wikipedia policies. We aren't here to discuss one another's point of view or why it's right or wrong. Oaktree b (talk) 01:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  All of the banned accounts have *not* been reinstated, which is precisely why having a high quality, fact-based record of the event is important and in the public interest. There are a number of people on either/any/all sides who would bend the truth to fit their narrative. Wikipedia should help inform people in as neutral a manner as possible.--Fogsparrow (talk) 17:29, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  On one hand, we get to see exactly how top-level executives of a large social media platform deliberate content moderation, that also their interactions with government officials and bodies. The public has never seen such detail of this context ever. On the other hand, temp suspensions that are attributable to extreme incompetence; the kind of mass suspensions we've seen Twitter do pre- and post-Elon. Explain how the latter is more important than the former. 175.136.139.226 (talk) 20:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  More for the fact that it was decided by Corporate Twitter before hand, and not by one man pulling the strings so openly, that's the issue here as I see it. Oaktree b (talk) 22:56, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• As a whole we need all editors to not rush to create articles just because something gets wide coverage. A burst of coverage is not the same as enduring notability, and we want editors to write as if 10+ years have passed and focus on the salient points and key outcomes, not the "juicy details" particularly when it comes to a ideological conflict in the AP2 area. Certainly this incident with the journalist, barring any actual sanctions from the EU, is a newsblip. The Twitter Files are close to being a news blip too and probably should be merged as well. Masem (t) 23:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, appears to be distinct enough from Twitter Files and clearly has a lot of coverage. This may need reconsidering in a few years, WP:10YEARS. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 20:52, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete. Self-promotion for a group of non-notable journalists trying to turn themselves into a story. No one will remember this in a week.Pinchofhope (talk) 20:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There’s obviously enough reliable sources in the article *right now* (more will probably be added over time) to falsify your crystal-ballin’ Volunteer Marek 20:57, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Watch out there. It's going to have to meet WP:GCSD or WP:ACSD. I think you meant strong delete? Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 20:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

yes change that to Strong delete. Pinchofhope (talk) 21:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The reporters are from NYT, CNN, Washington Post, the Intercept, and Business Insider (among others). These are some of the most notable journalism outlets in the world.--Fogsparrow (talk) 17:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Google says these companies have a total of 6,960 journalist/reporters (1,700+4,000+1,050+60+150) meaning this event impacted 0.1% of those working in 'some of the most notable journalism outlets'.

I hear layoffs in the thousands are imminent for Washington Post, CNN, NYT...

Given the apparent notability, should pages be created documenting each of these events? Even though the impact on media will be immeasurably greater I still say no, keep it to the respective company pages. EatingFudge (talk) 23:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, a layoff of thousands of journalists from the most prominent outlets in the United States deserves to be documented on Wikipedia. Given that different actors would be responsible for the layoffs in your hypothetical scenario, documenting the events on the page for their respective companies seems appropriate. It would make little sense to distribute this story to a dozen different pages, given the central actor is a single entity: Elon Musk / Twitter. That being said, this is all beside the point, since your scenario hasn't happened; even if it did, it's irrelevant to this discussion.

You're shifting the goalposts from "these are not notable journalists" to "there weren't enough affected." By your logic, 2009 imprisonment of American journalists by North Korea shouldn't exist. Fogsparrow (talk) 02:15, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Btw, this is article/AfD is all over twitter, Musk amplified it (called Wikipedia “controlled by MSM”) so expect a lot of crazy in the next 24 hours here. Volunteer Marek 20:57, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Non-notable? Then why do some of them have their own Wikipedia pages? Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  And yet here all of you first-time wiki editors are appearing to insist it's not important enough to have a page. If it wasn't important, you wouldn't be so vehemently opposed. 69.159.86.214 (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Prove that this article conveys anything of substance. To mee this just seems like WP:NOTNEWS 108.51.103.205 (talk) 20:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It's well sourced and discusses what happens, what more can you ask. Oaktree b (talk) 01:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, this article is disproportionate left-wing activism. This topic should be at most a subsection in Twitter's article. Twitter suspensions occur ramapantly for years, including many accounts of sitting officials in multiple countries. Fbergo (talk) 20:56, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lol, “I think this article is left wing activism (sic)” wtf that is suppose to be, is not a valid reason for deletion. Come on. You’ve been here ostensibly since 2005. You should know that. Volunteer Marek 20:59, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NOTACTIVISM? Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, please actually read the bulletin points in that and then also realize that this has nothing to do with notability. You can’t just say “I think this is activism!” without substantiating it and expect to be taken seriously. Volunteer Marek 21:07, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter suspensions. WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOPAGE applies. It's too soon to determine whether or not this will have "enduring in-depth coverage," and there's nothing in this article that doesn't belong in Twitter suspensions. schetm (talk) 20:57, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Disagree on WP:NOTNEWS. Page contains sufficient reliable sources, involves people notable enough to have Wikipedia articles, and does not involve "celebrity gossip". Aveaoz (talk) 21:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It also contains numerous non-neutral references (e.g., Micah Lee's Intercept article who was one of those temporarily suspended). We have an entry for Twitter suspensions already. Merge Kalem014 (talk) 01:05, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Either Keep or Merge into an overall article about Musk's handling of twitter since his takeover. May or may not be notable enough for a whole article, but definitly requires extended coverage in some form somewhere. However, may develop more to the extent that it warrants its own article. Jspace727 (talk) 21:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Twitter#Acquisition_by_Elon_Musk. I think this is an excellent example of WP:RECENT and WP:TOOSOON. This needs long term support in reliable sources before it is notable enough for inclusion. Esolo5002 (talk) 21:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, they had their bans removed within two days anyways. There has been other mass suspensions which do not have their own Wikipedia articles such as those on January 8th and the two months following. FoxTech20 (talk) 21:07, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. Not a significant-enough event to warrant an individual article - should be a section of the overall acquisition article. DRYT.Motorsport (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:NOTNEWS. Social media sites change their rules or suspend users all the time and it's unlikely that this incident is so much more notable that it merits its own article. --TocMan (talk) 21:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Definitely WP:NOTNEWS MikeR613 (talk) 19:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter#Acquisition by Elon Musk - the event may be notable, but probably not for an article. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contribs)} 21:12, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete A few Twitter accounts getting temporarily suspended doesn't merit a 3,000-word article. Castilruiz (talk)

Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and possibly WP:NOR 108.51.103.205 (talk) 21:13, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Gee, how does a brand new IP account with 3 edits know about WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOR (answer: either banned user or people on twitter are instructing twitter users how to vote here and what reasons to give) Volunteer Marek 21:18, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While I do agree IP is likely canvassed, you have got to agf. Maybe 108 actually read the ridiculous amount of policies and guidelines before voting, as Wikipedia usually expects them to. Sungodtemple (talk • contribs) 21:22, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly right! 108.51.103.205 (talk) 21:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Irrelevant to the topic at hand, but to answer your question, I've lurked the more technical aspects of wikipedia for a while, but never got into editing. This is an interesting topic to me, so I've decided to comment. If my commenting annoys you or you think "twitter is sending people", I'd recommend getting some fresh air. 108.51.103.205 (talk) 21:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, especially considering the amount of international backlash it's recieving, with the European Commission musing over whether to sanction Musk for suppressing the free press.Elishop (talk) 21:16, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I agree that it should be kept, or the entire article should be merged into the Twitter, Acquisition by Elon Musk page. SomhlthSmith (talk) 22:04, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete and merge content to Twitter suspensions per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:CRYSTALBALL, with no prejudice against recreation if something of enduring notability ends up developing from this. I personally think that articles ought to have a little time to breathe before being AfD'd, which this one got. At the time of its creation, the suspensions were claimed to have been permanent; instead, it seems that all of the journalists were unsuspended quite quickly after Elon realized this was dumb. That is, Matt Binder (@mattbinder), Drew Harwell (@drewharwell), Steven L. Herman (@W7VOA), Micah Lee (@micahflee), Ryan Mac (@rmac18), Donie O'Sullivan (@donie), Keith Olbermann (@keitholbermann), and Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) have been unsuspended; the only exception is Linette Lopez (@lopezlinette). One person being suspended from Twitter is not really notable, unless it is the President or something. Linette Lopez is not the President. Eight people (many of them below the threshold of notability) being suspended from Twitter for one day is not notable, and it's barely even newsworthy -- if these people didn't work for newspapers, I highly doubt that newspapers would have written about it. Note that, for example, one of the sources for Micah Lee's suspension is... an article written by Micah Lee. Other things (like the banning of mastodon.social) links may prove significant in the future, but even so, it's hard to justify having a standalone article about them. While I am personally annoyed when websites ban people for stupid reasons, this has been a fairly regular occurrence for quite some time, and I don't think there is anything particularly distinctive about this event that makes it stand out from, say, the existing list article at Twitter suspensions. jp×g 21:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I have no ill will for the creator of the article; at the time, there was no way of telling which direction things were going to go. Sometimes things end up being the start of something huge, and sometimes they don't. Anybody who's tried to write about current breaking-news events on Wikipedia get burned sooner or later; I know I sure have! jp×g 22:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Trump's Twitter suspension doesn't even have its own page. This is absurd. - Bbny-wiki-editor (talk) 21:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  trumps suspension can be summarized in a paragraph, this is far more nuanced. hence the background gone over in the article. Dol661 (talk) 21:36, 17 December 2022 (UTC)— Dol661 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Delete I've been kicked out of a chat room before. Didn't think to create a Wikipedia page about it. Adraeus (talk) 21:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  are you a journalist? did you read the article? this was a series of unwarranted bans against journalists, because they tagged another user... not just that but the outright ban of linking to twitters competitors. this literally breaks anti trust laws in many countries twitter operates in. Dol661 (talk) 21:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)— Dol661 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

• Strong delete textbook example of WP:NOTNEWS KINGofLETTUCE 👑 🥬 21:22, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong delete Complete nonsense and irrelevant. Elserbio00 (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Twitter suspensions. Seems like there's already a section about that here: Twitter suspensions#2022 suspensions of journalists. Some1 (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This event was overall very quickly resolved and is of questionable relevance and hence does not require its own article. Further there is already a succinct explanation of the event on the suspension of twitter accounts page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_suspensions#2022_suspensions_of_journalists. KNorth192 (talk) 21:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Not news by any reasonable measure. It's an embarrassment to wikipedia to have content like this. 72.79.45.22 (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -- clearly notable in existing context. Seeing lots of brigading here by folks who are being pushed to vote by a subject of the article (Musk), which argues in favor of keeping to ensure we are not sockpuppeted into making deletion decisions we shouldn't make. Secarctangent (talk) 21:25, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

What evidence do you have for your claims? 72.79.45.22 (talk) 21:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm...what's my evidence that non-wikipedians are brigading this, asked the non-logged-in IP address? Kinda answers itself. Secarctangent (talk) 22:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge anything useful to Twitter suspensions - this seems like a new case of a new version of Wikipedia:Not every single thing Donald Trump does deserves an article. (Oinkers42) (talk) 21:26, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Not a big event. GoodDay (talk) 21:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Among other good reasons mentioned above, the first source in the article is a journalist talking about his own suspension. That's clearly a primary source for our purposes and gives an idea about potential conflicts of interest in other sources. Twitter suspensions covers this as much as necessary. —Torchiest ^talk_edits 21:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Elon Musk, the CEO and owner of private company Twitter, publicly changed company policy and made 'doxxing' against Twitter policy. This was following an incident involving his young son being location tracked by a masked man who jumped onto the bonnet of the car he was in. In a response to the new policy, several journalists posted Elon Musk's location coordinates and links to information for the location of Elon Musk's private Jet Plane. Those journalists were subsequently suspended from Twitter for 1 day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.203.104.110 (talk • contribs)

• Keep. This is a notable controversy widely covered in numerous mainstream RS. WP:CRYSTALBALL is irrelevant because the events have already happened. I am not convinced by WP:NOTNEWS arguments: this is going to be highly notable for years because the events involves Twitter and Elon Musk, a company and a man who are both famous, as well as many other people we have pages about and who appear on this page. No merge with "Twitter suspensions" because that is a different sub-subject. This is a significant censorship controversy. It should not be merged to Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk because that had happen after the acquisition and a different subject. I simply do not see any valid justification for deletion. The page could be renamed, but this is a different issue. My very best wishes (talk) 21:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP is not a newspaper, the level of detail we need to cover is a few sentences at best likely at Twitter (where it is already covered). There's a whole bunch of things Elon Musk has done in the last two weeks that have gotten a lot of coverage but WP is meant to be a high-level summary, not a play by play. --Masem (t) 21:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Twitter#Acquisition by Elon Musk - Seems to be an important part of a larger story, that being everything going on with Musk and Twitter. CitiCat ^♫ 21:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• For anyone who argues that this is just a flash in a pan NOTNEWS story, here: “Twitter condemned by UN and EU over reporters’ ban” (with threats of sanctions etc) Volunteer Marek 21:37, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh yes, absolutely. This is going to have a very much lasting effect on Twitter and Elon Musk. We have no obligation to hide any negative but highly notable info about Musk and his company. My very best wishes (talk) 21:44, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Saying they are considering sanctions, and actually placing sanctions, are two very different things. One falls into CRYSTAL territory which we do not consider contributing to notability. Masem (t) 23:17, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - this is one of those NOTNEWS scenarios. No lasting effects. Also there are people commenting here about the Twitter Files delete discussion which is irrelevant OTHERTHINGSEXIST. Sorry I’m not linking to the actual pages here I’m on a phone. Anyways delete Nweil (talk) 21:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong delete "Thursday Night Massacre"... really, who dubbed this as a relevant event with such a pompous, absurd name? As if comparing this to the Kristallnacht. Totally out of mind. Okay, now seriously - would be extremely embarrassing to have something like this here. It reeks of pure activism, amplified by absurd magnitudes. It's not even a relevant event per se, given that these journalists have been temporarily suspended and are now back up. Should suffice as fundamental reason to delete this mess. Other reasons WP:NOTNEWS WP:CRYSTALBALL but I could add up more. Please be mindful that once again people are looking closely at Wikipedia and its editors... this definitely looks more like a partisan crusade of politically leaning zealots more than anything else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.32.3.24 (talk) 21:45, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Another brand new account citing Wikipedia policies like a pro. I.e., someone coming over from twitter after being instructed how to vote and what to say. Volunteer Marek 21:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  This seems like a copy-pasted or otherwise "cached" comment given that it was moved, and is no longer called "Thursday Night massacre".

  I am inclined to agree with Volunteer Marek regarding what's happening here. CharredShorthand (talk) 21:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The page still contains the phrase, based on a Intercept source. as an aside, I was like 50% sure the "Thursday Night Massacre" was made up some 4chan type troll to mock the journalists. but whatever the origin, it has now been used by one of the journalists themselves, writing for the Intercept. quite embarassing for them, but I don't think Wikipedia should be blamed for this, if it wasn't the original source. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 21:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I'm the editor that re-edited-in the "Thursday Night Massacre" name as it was mentioned in multiple articles, some of which are linked as sources. While I also find the name somewhat extreme (though I strongly disagree with you implying it is supposed to sound similar to Reichspogromnachts. It's clearly a reference to Saturday Night Massacre), WP:NPOV takes precedence-- it's what's reported, it's what it's referred to as by some, and as such it felt appropriate to include that in the article. Aveaoz (talk) 21:52, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Volunteer Marek I would highlight that not having a registered account on WP doesn't mean I'm not a periodic Wiki contributor. The fact that I don't register is a non-sequitur in your reasoning and you can't imply that I'm "just another 'someone' coming from Twitter". That's ostensibily fallacious. Moreover, even if it were the case (and I should overstate it's not), you should be glad that users get involved and interested about the process, getting closer to Wikis communal, open decision-making process (it's open and public, as it's meant to be). And finally, regarding my initial remark, let me add that having had distant relatives that have gone through the 40s persecution, I feel indignant and aghast, about the obvious and outrageous analogy with the KristallNacht. I humbly believe the journalist(s) that conceived that name in the source is not a journalist to be taken seriously, independently of whichever newspaper they're writing from. Please be mindful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.32.3.24 (talk) 22:09, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge deserves mention but doesn't need a stand-alone article as it can be easily summarized on Twitters page. WP:NOTNEWS, WP:TOO SOON, and general absolutely ridiculous overreaction by editors in even creating this article. Slywriter (talk) 21:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:CRYSTALBALL Trump's Twitter suspension doesn't have its own page, why should seven journalists who received a two day suspension have one? Nothing notable about it. Seanr451 (talk) 21:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note how many brand new and sleeper accounts (less than 250 edits) are showing up quoting the exact same two policies - NOTNEWS and CRYSTALBALL. Yes, this is being coordinated. Volunteer Marek 21:58, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So, according to you, I'm a "sleeper account" since I don't have over 250 edits. Yes, I haven't edited the wiki in awhile. Does that mean that my statements aren't correct? Does your calling me a "sleeper account" cause this article to suddenly become notable? Personal attacks don't cause inconvenient facts to disappear. Seanr451 (talk) 02:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - The intensity of the attempt to suppress this article demonstrates the importance of said article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.169.156.160 (talk • contribs)
• Speedy delete WP:NOTNEWS, the accounts have already been reinstated. --Jfhutson (talk) 22:18, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, though perhaps start a name change discussion on the talk page to rename to Thursday Night Massacre, since that appears to be the common name being used by reliable sources. As an event, it would likely be a sub-section in the main Twitter article, but has enough content to be split out into its own article here. Particularly considering the international impact the event is having in regards to the EU and elsewhere responses.

Also, it would be best if all of the SPA accounts that Elon sent over here, much like he did with the last AfD on the Twitter Files, should have their "votes" moved to the talk page here, rather than being allowed to clutter this discussion. Silverseren^C 22:20, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Remark: There was a move from "Thursday Night Massacre (Twitter)" to the current title 2 hours ago. Please see the relevant section on the talk page. Aveaoz (talk) 22:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed. And the arguments made therein are...really dumb? The existence of other articles with "Thursday Massacre" are entirely irrelevant, nor does one's personal perspective on it being a "massacre" or not matter whatsoever. What is the WP:COMMONNAME? That is what should be used, period. To do otherwise is to be non-neutral. Silverseren^C 22:24, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter suspensions seems better than deletion. I don't think this is notable enough for its own article. Gamebuster (Talk)║(Contributions) 22:21, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk, as this seems like it's being reported on in the context of the Twitter acquisition, with close ties to Elon as a person (due to ElonJet). Aveaoz (talk) 22:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I think merging into Twitter suspensions seems to make more sense. I definitely think a mention and link in Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk to the info after it's been moved to Twitter suspensions is certainly warranted though. Gamebuster (Talk)║(Contributions) 22:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOT. Bruxton (talk) 22:28, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately, I think we'll probably end up with something like "Timeline of Elon Musk's ownership of Twitter", starting with when he made that initial offer and ending... well, I admit I'm being speculative, but I think there will be an ending. And this incident can be a section thereof. DS (talk) 05:37, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter or History or twitter, but yeah WP:NOTNEWS and WP:CRYSTAL and before anyone accuses me of being a bot I said the SAME thing about the Twitter Files forever ago.

Ask me about air Cryogenic air (talk) 13:20, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment we also need an essay WP:NETRUMP but for twitter. At this rate as of UTC 13:24 19 DEC 2022 we will get more and more articles

Ask me about air Cryogenic air (talk) 13:25, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk (or alternately Twitter suspension). To the extent this is currently expected to have any lasting significance it as part of the acquisition and transition, not on its own. It's far too early to say that it will have any lasting independent significance. Jahaza (talk) 22:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Keep This page is a historical artifact at this point illustrating just how far left and biased wikipedia has become. Deleting it would be a disservice to the absolute absurdity of this page, it authors, and every editor and source who blatantly misrepresented the facts and illustrated such sensationalism over this matter. Kcmastrpc (talk) 22:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe move to the WP:Project namespace and tag with template:humor? --Jfhutson (talk) 22:55, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into the Twitter Suspensions article per WP:NOTNEWS. ser! ^{(chat to me - see my edits)} 22:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Yes, Merge into Twitter suspensions. I'm surprised there is even an article on the suspensions. WP:NOTNEWS is overused but it has been completely disregarded when it comes to Twitter. Coretheapple (talk) 23:01, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete This is nothing serious to remember or create "Day of Suffering Leftists" maybe Zboralski (talk) 23:07, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy STRONG KEEP Turbo - This is much more notable than normal suspensions, European Union and United Nations condemning and considering sanctions make this an international incident. Old Guard (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter suspensions#Incidents as to stay consistent with the suspension of other major figures. --Pichu0102 (talk) 23:14, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge I think the safest thing would be to merge this into the twitter article (as much of a behemoth that article is) or the Acquisition by Elon Musk article or w/e it's called. Lotta folks seem to have a strong opinion about this, and ordinarily I'd be happy to vote to tweak their nose about it, but this is wikipedia, not twitter. This *is* substantially different from a regular suspension, and probably doesn't actually deserve to be sent to a giant list somewhere to be forgotten, but it's also tough to argue it deserves to be an entire article on its own. If it were up to me, I'd keep it - but I think that's personal bias. Tentonne (talk) 23:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Twitter suspensions might benefit from splitting into a major Twitter suspension incidents article and a list of notable Twitter suspensions as to allow more breathing room for notable incidents to be expanded on. --Pichu0102 (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or merge into Twitter suspensions and Twitter#Acquisition by Elon Musk - This is absolutely notable enough to be kept, it's just a case of where. Merging it into Twitter would be a bad idea considering the article is rlly long already. ImStevan (talk) 23:28, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment to closer - Given the real world circumstances surrounding this AfD (i.e. Musk's campaign), the closer should carefully examine each !vote, and accept only those from regular editors, perhaps using Extended Confirmed status as a guideline. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:32, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge: merge and redirect target to Twitter suspensions. Nom and above comments match my reasoning. ~ Pbritti (talk) 23:34, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:NOT, these suspensions ultimately lasted just over 24 hours, far from warranting their own separate article Saget53 (talk) 23:39, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or merge: Article's existence is dependent on left-wing criticism of the decisions, thus flagrantly violating the neutral point of view. ViperSnake151  Talk  23:44, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't think the United Nations (or EU, or the journalists in question or their respective news outlets, or others who reported on and criticized the event) are inherently left-wing. I don't even necessarily think the article ought to be kept (at the time of writing this I haven't !voted), but !votes like this that are only based on a perception that this article is left-wing propaganda & fail to reference the article deletion criteria hold no weight.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 00:44, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Agreed, government bodies are perhaps biased but not right or left wing. Oaktree b (talk) 01:43, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @ViperSnake151: You should read again WP:NPOV. It has nothing to do with notability of the subject, which is what is discussed here. May a subject be "dependent on left [or right]-criticsm" is irrelevant. — Jules* ^talk 10:24, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I mean more as in, this article is effectively a fork of Elon Musk acquisition of Twitter and Twitter suspensions that places undue weight on this specific incident, and lacks alternative perspectives that are in support of Musk's actions. Given the length of the suspensions, the content can easily be handled in context on Elon Musk acquisition of Twitter. ViperSnake151  Talk  14:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lacking in notability per Wikipedia:Notability (events). If it must stay, then condense and add to Twitter suspensions. Spirarel (talk) 01:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete lacking in notability. More suitable for KnowYourMemes than Wikipedia, to be honest. DockMajestic (talk) 04:52, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable enough to be it's own event, would be out of place tossed in to Twitter or Twitter suspensions. Tantomile (talk) 05:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or Merge Notable enough for an article or entire section 🍁 DinoSoupCanada 🍁 (talk) 14:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or merge with the other articles already written.

There is no reason to create an entire new overly dramatic article about a temporary suspension thay didn't even last a day, specially considering the languages used and the fact that they wanted to somehow liken this to kristalnacht. Kane 1371 (talk) 23:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Twitter suspensions or, alternatively, Owning the libs. soibangla (talk) 23:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Merge. Event is notable, but may be more appropriate included in another Twitter-related article. Klausness (talk) 00:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Twitter suspensions's relevance as an article is questionable; this is barely notable enough to warrant a sentence on it. Joshua Garner (talk) 00:04, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep is a notable event that might have profound effects to Twitter and beyond. Let it sit for now. QRep2020 (talk) 00:06, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete not worthy of being notable considering the left bias in this article is worrisome.MrHerii (talk) 00:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  you are free to add the right wing viewpoint to the article, we're here to keep things neutral Oaktree b (talk) 01:25, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete If I can go down memory lane - in 2017 Trump fired Sally Yates, a few excitable media outlets dubbed it the "Monday Night Massacre", a Wikipedia article was created with that title, and there were Wikipedians swearing that the Monday Night Massacre would go down in the history of the United States and us having a standalone article and its having such a ridiculous title were completely justified. Then after a few months everyone calmed down and it just became Sally_Yates#Dismissal and I don't think anyone would try and resurrect the standalone article. This incident is far, far less worth a standalone article. NPalgan2 (talk) 00:29, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• keep clearly meets WP:N as a topic. Further, most all of these delete/merge !votes are just stating opinions without explaining why the article doesn't meet our inclusion guidelines. There are valid arguments to make, but "not notable" (e.g. "only lasted 24 hours"), arguments that NPOV is violated because the articles aren't coming from conservative sites, etc. aren't valid arguments here. Hobit (talk) 00:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, as per WP:NOTNEWS and the fact that 8 out of 11 of the mentioned journalists do not have pages. If all the mentioned parties were notable, I can see a case to be made over this, but as of writing - no. Lucksash (talk) 01:00, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Curbon7 (talk) 01:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete/Merge Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, meaning that it is a summary, not for blow-by blow coverage of events. This can easily be covered adequately at Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. Hemiauchenia (talk) 01:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Merge - wide coverage in RS. MiasmaEternal☎ 01:19, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, our "reliable" sources are only as good as their ability to be non-self-interested. [osunpokeh/talk/contributions] 01:24, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep well sourced, using various RS from around the world, the Toronto Star, the Washington Post and Rolling Stone, the Independent from the UK. Is very much at GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Twitter suspensions. Gentgeen (talk) 01:31, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete A wholly pointless article based on a non-event. Schwarbage (talk) 01:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Absolutely massive amount of press coverage, and it resulted in a large number of prominent users (not just those personally affected) migrating from the site. Doesn’t matter in my view that they were reinstated. If not Keep, Merge. Cpotisch (talk) 01:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into either Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk or Twitter suspensions. moof (talk) 01:38, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk and/or Twitter suspensions. At this juncture, this seems to violate WP:NOTNEWS and can be covered sufficiently in either article. Despite the large amount of coverage in reliable sources, this seems to be a fleeting event which only affected a small number of people (as mentioned by Lucksash, 8 of the 11 journalists who were suspended don't even have articles). However, the event itself could be covered in other articles per WP:NOPAGE. – Epicgenius (talk) 01:46, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • A) Us having articles about the targets has nothing to do with NOTNEWS. B) A large amount of coverage in RSes is exactly what we use to determine notability. Hobit (talk) 01:54, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    A) I didn't say either article had anything to do with NOTNEWS, I said this topic could be covered in the other articles. B) I mentioned WP:NOPAGE, which says Sometimes, understanding is best achieved by presenting the material on a dedicated standalone page, but it is not required that we do so. There are other times when it is better to cover notable topics, that clearly should be included in Wikipedia, as part of a larger page about a broader topic, with more context. I think the article should be merged because, without the context of these two topics, this article probably wouldn't have existed. – Epicgenius (talk) 02:20, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

    You said At this juncture, this seems to violate WP:NOTNEWS which sounds like you are saying NOTNEWS had something to do with this article. And I've no idea why you think additional context is needed--the topic seems to stand alone quite nicely. Basically, I can't parse your arguments. Hobit (talk) 15:10, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Delete WP:NOTNEWS WP:CRYSTALBALL Simply not news worthy, they broke the rules and what happened to them as a result is identical to what happened to hundred of thousand of other people during the old regime. and gatekeepers like Volounteer Marek are the reason Wikipedia is the leftist cesspool it is today. Reginus Paulius Gryphus (talk) 01:49, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lol. Yup, this AfD is a total shitshow. Volunteer Marek 01:55, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I know it goes against your polticial view, but please Keep it Civil Meganinja202 (talk) 02:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You actually don't know chip. I would appreciate it if you didn't try to tell me what my "political views" are. THAT is uncivil. Volunteer Marek 03:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I am not telling, I am just giving a heads up that no matter the political views the other person haye, you must keep it civil

It also means avoid NSFW language on civil debates. Meganinja202 (talk) 03:41, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Uh huh. First we have I know it goes against your polticial view. Then we have I am not telling, I am just giving a heads up. Ascribing motives to editors rather than discussing content is a violation of WP:NPA. Not using a grown up word in a grown up space among grown ups. Volunteer Marek 03:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Reginus Paulius Gryphus, since you think that this worldwide top ten website is a leftist cesspool, then why don't you leave Wikipedia and go edit your favorite "rightist cesspool", to elevate that website, whatever it is, into the top ten websites worldwide? We will be looking forward to your success in that regard. Cullen328 (talk) 02:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's an account with like ten edits. Volunteer Marek 03:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Leftist cesspool just means we don't have enough right-wing views here, please, please add then. We encourage all viewpoints here. The whole point is to discuss it using neutral language, presenting all views. We strongly encourage you to join the debate. Oaktree b (talk) 22:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We encourage all viewpoints here.

No, we definitely do not. — The Hand That Feeds You:^Bite 20:07, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The idea that an event can be notable enough as to deserve comment from the UN and the EU, but is too lowly to merit acknowledgement from Wikipedia, which is such a lofty reservoir of knowledge that it hosts entries about porn performers -- that argument is comic. Flattering to us editors, but comic. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 03:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Twitter#Moderation_of_tweets , Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk and Twitter suspensions or Rename - While this is news worthy and should put on pages/areas related to (already many) Twitter and Musk controversies, The fact that most of issues and debate about the theme (including suspensions) was resolved in less of 24 hours, makes that it does not deserve have its own page on wiki, or at least one with such dramatic and pompous name, maybe "Twitter Doxxing Suspension Debate" or "X Musk and Elon Musk vs Journalists Debate" so it keeps the NPOV of wiki.

Also

• Comment - its Kinda ironic that all this debate happens just few days after Twitter Files debate, and how tables are turned only beacuse the situation affects the "other side", this shows how much our world is divided, how much some news matter or not matter depending of person and above all, how much important is a neutral point of view Wikipedia with political Independence and impartiality. Meganinja202 (talk) 02:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Deletion discussions (AFD discussions) revolve around a complex set of criteria; my perception is that the issue you raise relates to the administrative process of managing AFD discussions through narrative driven "news" cycles. (sent you a talk) Flibbertigibbets (talk) Flibbertigibbets (talk) 02:32, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  We live in a age that various narrative driven "news" cycles clash with each other constantly, and as main source of human knowledge, in my opinion, Wikipedia should know measure those factors and guarantee NPOV and a common ground of knowledge above all. Meganinja202 (talk) 03:33, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Twitter Files was kept and this article likely won't be. How are people still finding a way to claim that these deletion discussions are proof of a systemic bias against Musk? The reason why Twitter Files started out leaning towards a delete outcome was because its sourcing was unacceptably poor, but its quality rapidly improved as it continued to receive coverage in secondary outlets demonstrating an increase in notability. This article started out decent in quality and will likely be deleted or merged anyways because it has not sufficiently demonstrated enduring notability beyond a brief news cycle. Nothing abnormal is going on, but somehow there are still those who'll look at these deletion discussions and picture an imaginary leftist cabal controlling the narrative... this says much more about those who leave these sorts of comments than it says about Wikipedia itself.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:04, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  (For clarity, this wasn't directed at you or your comments, but towards a great many other comments here)  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 22:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Perhaps after looking retrospectively at this issue from a historical lens a year from now, the (probably temporary) suspension of a half-dozen journalists for violating Twitter’s terms of service might be noteworthy and encyclopedic and significant enough to merit a page on Wikipedia. But right now, it is A) insufficiently encyclopedic, B) clearly violates WP:NOTNEWS, is C) excessively tabloid-like in nature, and D) is harmful to Wikipedia’s reputation were it allowed to stay. Greg L (talk) 02:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  He's suspended other journalists today, so the story isn't yet done. Oaktree b (talk) 22:46, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: This stand alone article would in my opinion disturb the possibility of presenting balance in a generalized topic which is covered via Twitter. In my opinion, it is very important to present details of an issue within the larger context. Flibbertigibbets (talk) 02:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Keep article is well-sourced, discussed across multiple RS. Well above the bar for GNG. Oaktree b (talk) 01:18, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strike duplicate !vote.Jahaza (talk) 08:44, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, some other editor had been removing my comments, I was pinged and reverted the comment. Oaktree b (talk) 22:47, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• I vote Keep, but I also believe based on how this discussion has been going so far, it's likely that it should end in a No Consensus, as I don't think it will be possible to reach a true consensus here. Many of the arguments are not policy-based, but rather are subjective opinions that the topic doesn't warrant an article, or opinions based upon politics or ideology. Additionally, many are advocating for a merge, which should be a separate discussion outside AfD. The real question here should be whether it meets Wikipedia's notability standards, which is determined by significant coverage in reliable, secondary sources independent of the subject. It clearly meets that standard, and the topic is large enough and has generated enough coverage to warrant a standalone article, rather than just a few sentences on the larger Twitter article. Additionally, I would argue this AfD discussion is premature. This is a current event that is still unfolding, and there's no harm in waiting a little while before making any merge or deletion decisions, which can always be raised again later. Honestly, everything is moving a little too fast with this article: in the course of less than 24 hours, the article has been renamed, several merge discussions were started, and now there's an AfD. (In fact, the same editor who speedily closed the rename discussion proposed a merge immediately afterward.). I would suggest we slow things down a little bit here... — Hunter Kahn 02:26, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Couldn't both the Rename and AfD debates be fused on a single debate? many (independently they favor a Keep or Delete) seems in favor of a renaming Meganinja202 (talk) 02:34, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  How this should close is for the closer to decide. More than just GNG or notability this is a question of WP:NOPAGE, aka PAGEDECIDE, as was the Paul Gosar page whose AfD I cite above, and many other AfDs of this nature. Does this need a standalone article for blow-by-blow coverage, or is it better covered in some other article? I argue it is obviously the latter, there is no evidence that this incident was of any standalone significance. We absolutely can decide whether this should be merged or not right here, if the consensus here is clear that we don't need a seperate page, there isn't really any reason to hold that separately. It was the creation of this article that was premature, not the deletion or merge discussions. Articles should be created after it is clear whether the event was of any significance or not, not before, WP:RECENTISM creates unnecessary cruft. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 02:44, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. This tabloid content can be covered in a brief paragraph elsewhere. --Local hero ^talk 02:32, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep the sheer volume of comments here means this easily passeswp:n—blindlynx 02:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete I dont see how a private company temporarily suspending 9 accounts for misconduct is news or noteworthy enough to have its own page. WP:NOTNEWS WP:N WP:RECENT The suspensions ended up being for 1 day. If this is significant enough an event for the individuals involved, it can be recorded on their individual pages which has already been done or on Twitter suspensions which has also already been done. I doubt people will be talking about this in a month let alone a year WP:DELAY This article is solely about the few media personalities caught up in the new rules, there is no mention or reporting on any others that would doubtless also been suspended for doxxing. This to me suggests the reports are for the benefit of the media personalities and it's difficult to separate independent from biased sources. Wikipedia is not the place to air grievances WP:NOTSCANDAL, even if those involved are part of a class with the clout to have articles created for their benefit. WP:IS — Preceding unsigned comment added by EatingFudge (talk • contribs) 02:41, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete WP:NOTNEWS Kafoxe (talk) 02:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Coverage was widespread in the media, and Elon's actions prompted very atypical responses from the UN and the EU. This far surpasses the notability achieved by the Twitter Files nothingburger. Voting should also be redone only with old, registered accounts. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 02:47, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge - A section in Twitter suspensions is probably the right amount of detail for this incident, unless it becomes more important as time goes on, in which case it might be spun off again. -- Beland (talk) 02:54, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge it into Twitter suspensions and Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. I believe that this article clearly has enough sources to be considered notable, but it's a notable sub-subject of those subjects. I also want to comment that Elon Musk has canvassed this article on Twitter so it probably needs protection from a wave of brigadiers.Di (they-them) (talk) 03:56, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, a mention in Twitter suspensions already exists and is sufficient. 04:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)Tataryn (talk)
• Strong Delete, It's so absurd that it doesn't even merit a policy violation citation but have all the WP:RECENTs you want if you need one to sleep at night. This is the kind of thing that makes a laughingstock out of Wikipedia. Social media suspensions as a result of flame wars on Twitter is the stuff of middle school legend. I can hardly even believe this is a page that I have vote on. A.S. Williams (talk) 04:28, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or merge, but definitely do not delete the information - Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:46, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per WP:10YT and WP:NOTNEWS. Perhaps merge the information into ElonJet or the Twitter suspensions article. Oeoi (talk) 05:52, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete WP:NOTNEWS, WP:NOTDIARY, WP:CRYSTALBALL, WP:NOT, etc. This is not a notable event. If a handful of journos getting a suspension for violating the rules of a social media platform is worthy of an article then my dinner last night from preparation to flush needs its own page on the wiki. Xenomancer (talk) 05:59, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Not notable enough for its own page, and could be merged into existing pages, such as the page for Musk's acquisition of Twitter.
• Redirect to Twitter suspensions#2022, where this topic is covered in sufficient depth. As far as WP:NEVENT is concerned, there is frankly no evidence about a likely WP:LASTING effect here and the WP:COVERAGE analysis is going to be incomplete because we can't evaluate duration of coverage until the current news cycle is over. Those advocating for a merge into Twitter suspensions frankly don't really identify anything that's missing from the list that would warrant inclusion (I cannot find such material worth merging myself). Outright deletion seems odd, given that we have a reasonable place to redirect this to. Keeping the article seems contrary to WP:NEVENT at this time. As such, redirection seems like the best way forward. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 07:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep has already generated enough coverage in reliable sources to frankly overwhelm the twitter suspensions page. Needs a standalone article at this point. Not every suspension wave becomes a geopolitical event with comment from multiple governmental and supragovernmental orgs. --WhoIs 127.0.0.1 ping/loopback 08:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Deletion is not warranted in any case, and decision on wether to merge or not should wait the storm of troll voters to recess, one article under semi-protection and already three talk pages absolutely spammed is enough, merging prematurely would just restart the process of them spamming the same arguments for deletion —Bookman FirstOfHisName (talk) 08:23, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Obviously WP:NOTNEWS. Beyond that, this article makes us look ridiculous. Mentioning in Twitter suspensions is appropriate, with WP:DUE weight.LM2000 (talk) 08:38, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge Include a few sentences from this abortion of an article in in Acquisition_of_Twitter_by_Elon_Musk or History_of_Twitter. High Tinker (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 09:08, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep It makes Wikipedia look like the absurd laughing stock that it is. CTA MART (talk) 09:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or very selectively merge into Twitter suspensions or Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk per WP:NOTNEWS. This incident is worth a paragraph or two at most in one of those articles, not this amount of detail for a standalone topic, as it doesn't have nearly enough lasting significance. Yes there is too much information for it all to be merged, but that's the point - as an encyclopedia we don't cover current events in this kind of detail just because there's press coverage. Hut 8.5 09:41, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per our WEB guideline and for didactic purposes. ElMu cites this specific article as support for his proposition that "Wikipedia is controlled by the MSM journalists." (To be particular, Wikipedia's content is controlled by what mainstream journals publish; our REDFLAG policy warns against including apparently important claims not covered by multiple mainstream sources or claims … that would significantly alter mainstream assumptions.) -Dervorguilla (talk) 09:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge notable parts into Twitter suspensions. I don't think it's necessary to have this much detail about a few Twitter suspensions. Even if there are many reliable sources, an entire article dedicated to this I think is overkill. DarkHorse234 (talk) 10:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - definitely notable considering the attention this has attracted AlbusWulfricDumbledore (talk) 10:07, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Merge - The article's subject is notable enough to have it's own article, even if previous names for the article were a bit...extreme. Multiple news sites have covered the suspension, the German Government (https://twitter.com/AuswaertigesAmt/status/1603689087969411072?t=5YbKeac6HUhXMdQDhE92xA&s=19), The EU, and the UN (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63996061) have criticized the suspension. The article just reflects what is being published in Verifiable, Reliable sources, for Wikipedia is not a publisher of original thought. I could see and I accept the article being merged into another one, such as Twitter suspensions or the article about musk's acquisition of Twitter. But I feel like this topic has become large enough on its own. Littlepagers (talk) 10:49, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, this seems to be a notable event in the history of social media, with more than enough reliable sources. The current neutral name is good and can be changed if the nickname ends up being used much. Coyotedomino (talk) 10:57, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or Merge - I don't see how this subject is notable enough for a stand-alone article. Moondragon21 (talk) 11:06, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, because this is an event that causes to almost wreck social media in history. CastJared (talk) 11:09, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. The expulsions are still ongoing. Taylor Lorenz has just become a target. It's clear this will turn into a bigger story than it already is. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 11:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Checking Lorenz's twitter it still exists as of this comment. If she was 'expelled' it was only for the day. This is an excellent example of why this page should not exist, the facts are not settled and by creating a page Wikipedia is engaging in misinformation. Not unlike how Wikipedia was used to promote Ukrainian propaganda with early articles like 2022 Snake Island campaign, Ghost of Kyiv.

  Wikipedia is not a newspaper nor is it a diary. WP:NOTNP EatingFudge (talk) 02:27, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge or delete, not sufficiently relevant for seperate page. Dajasj (talk) 11:49, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now. The whole episode definitely meets WP:GNG with plenty of 3rd-party RS that talk about it. I feel like an encyclopedic article about the topic that distills all of the ongoing coverage in MSM into a readable summary serves a public good. As for WP:NOTNEWS, I'd like to go for a wait-and-see attitute and revisit this debate after things have died down. I'd like to compare this to the Covfefe article, which at first was merged to the article about Trump's socmed use but was eventually recreated after seeming enduring notability was established. —seav (talk) 12:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• With what Peleio Aquiles mentioned in mind, I am going to lean keep but insist on a rename. --Pokelova (talk) 12:33, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Redirect. WP:NOTNEWS, certainly, but WP:10YT is the main issue with the article. Everything on this page is already summarized succinctly and appropriately at Twitter suspensions. Wertwert55 (talk) 13:12, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Per Wikipedia:Notability_(events), the article is not relevant enough to warrant its own post. For a comparable event, Donald Trump's suspension is arguably more impactful on the news, and it has not received its own article. It has received a section on Twitter suspensions. I see no reason why this event should receive special treatment. Horizons 1 (talk) 14:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete. WP:NOTNEWS, certainly, but WP:10YT is the main issue with the article. Everything on this page is already summarized succinctly and appropriately at Twitter suspensions. Should be a ***strong delete *** 14:05, 18 December 2022 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sybau (talk • contribs)

Sybau, is there a reason your !vote is a word for word carbon copy of Wertwert55 2 !votes above? --WhoIs 127.0.0.1 ping/loopback 14:35, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Strike duplicate !vote. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 18:00, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete It appears Musk is going to continue to do this kind of thing. We don’t need to cover each time he seems to arbitrarily ban people. Better to cover this at the Musk and Twitter article. Thriley (talk) 14:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete with Facepalm that this made it to article status. Already covered at Twitter suspensions. 5Q5|^✉
• Delete As others have said, doesn't satisfy Wikipedia:Notability_(events) (not even remotely close), and obviously WP:NOTNEWS. Global Cerebral Ischemia (talk) 15:40, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Because the EU, the UN, and the German government comment on social media suspensions all the time... Peleio Aquiles (talk) 17:06, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Many world leaders commented on Trump's suspension. It does not have its own page just because of that. Wertwert55 (talk) 18:01, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge to Twitter suspensions#2022 Fails WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NEVENT, and the WP:10Y essay best provides my perspective on this. Merging to Twitter suspensions keeps some of the reliable content, which can be later split into its own topic if it turns out this event has lasting significance. The Night Watch (talk) 15:46, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect. An article already exists for this and WP:NOTNEWS. It should be redirected to Twitter suspensions. Idevjoe (talk) 16:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. This is as serious and as notable of an event as it gets. Musk is the world's richest person, Twitter is one of the largest social media platforms on the planet, and silencing the free press has serious long term implications for the freedom of information spread across the world. Anyone who values Wikipedia should take this seriously. --Fogsparrow (talk) 16:38, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now. I agree with the general point made above (about Sally Yates) that eventually this fork will be integrated into a larger article, it’s just a question of the right merge target. Since things are changing rapidly there’s no harm in keeping this for now and then incorporating its content into a better destination article in the future. Eusebeus (talk) 17:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete article entirely based on recentism. It will be forgotten in a month from now and left to dust as not notable. Does not satisfy notability either as others have stated above. Gorebath (talk) 17:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep/Merge This is an important changing point for the future of Twitter and Musk's direction for the future of it; however, just this event may not be worthy of its own article, since more similar events will likely be coming in the future.--Zehaha (talk) 18:13, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge a subset of the most important content to any of the various recommended pages, probably Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk, per WP:NOTNEWS. Important in the context of the Musk acquisition, but it does not appear to be generally notable enough for a standalone article, yet. Bakkster Man (talk) 18:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete/Merge The event is not especially significant and most of the content should be deleted with a subset merged into Twitter and Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. Ergzay (talk) 19:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Please delete immediately. This article is nothing more than an attempt at political revenge. The journalists, who previously were very happy about Twitter merrily deleting accounts for political reasons (as has now been proven in the Twitter files) are themselves kicked off if Twitter because they indulged in doxxing their political enemy, and cry out "censorship". It’s a deeply hypocritical political ploy which, sadly, some Wiki editors play along with. Just delete it. Boscaswell talk 19:42, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Boscaswell: but do you have a reason to delete it that's grounded in Wikipedia policy? CharredShorthand (talk) 19:45, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  WP:NOTNEWS, WP:RECENTISM, etc etc Boscaswell talk 19:47, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Um, sorry, but it kind of looks like you revealed your real reason for your !vote ("ITS POLITICISS I DONTLIKES!!!") and now are just scrambling to invent excuses. Volunteer Marek 20:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - since there appears to be a whole another round of blockins' [10] [11] [12], this isn't going away any time soon. At this point anyone who's trying to argue that this isn't notable with a straight face isn't doing so in good faith (except Masem but that's cause he has a credible history for his position). Volunteer Marek 20:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Article should probably be expended to include newest info. Here's some more sources (just more recent ones) to establish notability: CNN Business, BBC, Rolling Stone, Wired, Business Insider, PC World and that's just like from the last few hours. Non-notable my butt. Volunteer Marek 20:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Several users besides Masem who have been here for years have voted for deletion and there's absolutely no reason to think they're doing so in bad faith. This commentary is extremely unprofessional at best. Wertwert55 (talk) 20:29, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Right, with rationales that have nothing to do with our notability policies but rather consist of incoherent whinnying about “woke politics” or something. Volunteer Marek 21:36, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

No, several have given actual reasons to redirect or delete, including Red-tailed hawk and Hut 8.5 right above me and have given absolutely no indications of not arguing in good faith, which you should be assuming in the first place. Wertwert55 (talk) 21:52, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of these two users addressed the pro-notability argument for this entry -- that dozens of the most influential reliable sources have covered the suspensions, and both governmental and supragovernmental officials have weighed in on them. Peleio Aquiles (talk) 23:21, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

They didn't need to. They were giving their own opinion on why the article should be deleted or redirected, cited policy to do so, and were not responding to anyone else. The context of my reply has more to do with WP:AGF and WP:CIV than anything else. I'd recommend we cut this discussion off and let people discuss the actual AfD. Wertwert55 (talk) 23:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Woke politics isn't a thing we recognize at AfD, we discuss all viewpoints here. Oaktree b (talk) 22:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or Merge into Twitter suspensions. Given unsuspensions, and suspensions on other dates, long-term notability of this particular date is doubtful at best. Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:03, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, we do appear to have significant coverage... Especially of the actions taken by national governments and the EU in response, that impact appears to be ongoing and likely to be long lasting. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:27, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Massacre? One guy called this a massacre? The first line already shows how an hyperbole the article is. Twitter beefs and outrage should only be considered once the outrage is over. Recentism. Kameejl ^(Talk) 22:11, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The current wording of the article and individual turns of phrase have nothing to do with whether the event is noteworthy. Individual pieces of language can be cleaned up and improved as needed.--Fogsparrow (talk) 22:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's a historical artifact, the page used to be called Thursday Night Massacre (because more than a dozen sources used that name, not just one). Check out the page history [13] and the talk as well. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 22:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Which is how you know this is another account that got canvassed on twitter since the article hasn’t had “massacre” in its name for awhile (and doesn’t know and only had it briefly) Volunteer Marek 23:47, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note I did not refer to the title. It doesn't change anything about my reasoning. This article is Twitter outrage fueled by emotions turned into an encyclopedia entry. Kameejl ^(Talk) 09:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment There have been further/later suspensions and re-instatements, outside of those on the 15th, suggesting this isn't a one-time event, and should perhaps warrant keeping the article. Ongoing news event at least. Oaktree b (talk) 22:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Bannings of individuals happen all the time, especially in waves like this one. Banning people who break a company's terms of service is not notable, even if it is perceived as such by media figures. Mebigrouxboy (talk) 23:29, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. If it’s perceived as such by media then it is indeed notable. that’s the policy. You know kind of like “terms of service”. Volunteer Marek 23:48, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I encourage you to ask yourself who this article benefits. How detailing the course of events and response in superfluous and non-NPOV detail benefits anyone. Does anyone learn, or is this just a glorified news article? Mebigrouxboy (talk) 00:13, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If we’re being perfectly honest, then the truth is that the “NOTNEWS” ship has sailed a long time ago. Wikipedia has been creating articles on “breaking news” for years. And same people who want to delete news they don’t like vote to keep the news they like. And vice versa. Any honest vote would consider Twitter Files in the same way that they approach this article. Or does that not qualify as WP:NOTNEWS for some reason? Note also, that I haven’t even voted, either way. Volunteer Marek 00:41, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Obviously the original name and the current "December 15" date in the name are suboptimal, but given continuing coverage, this series of event clearly meets WP:GNG, and above any thresholds set by WP:NOTNEWS. The only real question is if this should be a standalone article, or covered elsewhere (i.e. merged as an alternative to deletion). Looking at Twitter suspensions, Twitter, and Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk, those are either already too long to comfortably have a cut down version of this without a standalone page. Of these, the best merge target would be the suspensions page, but personally, I would think creating a page like Twitter under Elon Musk as hub for these widely covered events that is then linked to from other aforementioned relevant pages is probably the best solution. However, that's outside the purview of AFD. ---- Patar knight - ^chat/_{contributions} 23:50, 18 December 2022 (UTC
• Oops. More banning reported again in reliable sources [14] [15] [16]. Tell me again how this is non notable and just “woke politics”. Volunteer Marek 23:56, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Is the scope going to be widened out from a one time massacre of journalists to Elon Musk's massacre of free speech at large through his moderation actions after the acquisition of Twitter? (Nevermind that the idea of free speech being harmed due to someone being banned from a private plateform was considered laughable by the same cohort, "you aren't entitled to a microphone" and all that). If so, that is more reason to just redirect this to the article on Musk's Twitter acquisition, the new information is better integrated there than here. Graham's suspension has little connection to this, other than both being caused apparently by Musk. This is exactly the problem with creating "breaking news" articles—confusion on the scope and significance of any specific event leads to recentist cruft. It is much better covered on the acquisition or whatever page, we can always spin out if it does actually turn out to be significant. TryKid ^{[dubious – discuss]} 00:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per Sungodtemple. XtraJovial (talk • contribs) 00:34, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to Twitter suspensions. The incident can be summarized there but it does not need a standalone article per WP:NOPAGE. Pawnkingthree (talk) 01:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete: Unremarkable event that has a very small impact. echidnaLives - talk - edits 02:17, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now - IMO has more than enough independent secondary coverage to provide notability and passes all the requirements in the policies mentioned by the nominator. For the moment and until the picture is clearer, let it stand. Gazamp (talk) 02:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep An exceptionally notable event that seems likely to remain notable into the future, easily passes WP:GNG CT55555(talk) 02:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or trim down and merge to Twitter suspensions#Incidents. We do not need a separate article for every death throe of this failing company. There are several articles in which this subject can be sufficiently covered with due weight. This event is not independently notable and does not require a separate article to give it due weight in our coverage. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 02:57, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete "A two day suspension of maybe 7 accounts for doxxing **got an actual Wikipedia page!?** Wikipedia is controlled by the MSM journalists. Can’t trust that site anymore." - @elonmusk / https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1604195049469710336 . Habanero-tan (talk) 03:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is "Elon told me to" suppose to be a policy based reason for deletion now? Volunteer Marek 03:59, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"If you came here because someone asked you to, or you read a message on another website, please note that this is not a majority vote, but instead a discussion among Wikipedia contributors. Wikipedia has policies and guidelines regarding the encyclopedia's content, and consensus (agreement) is gauged based on the merits of the arguments, not by counting votes."  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 04:28, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment Elon doesn't run wikipedia at my last check, I don't see how that does or doesn't meet GNG.

Oaktree b (talk) 13:00, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep: Well, the (Personal attack removed) are out in force, aren't they? Leaving aside the horde of sock- and meatpuppets, and the predictable MAGAheads screaming "Woke! Liberal! Woke!" at the top of their lungs like so many squawking geese, let me drop a dollop of education on how Wikipedia and deletion policy works on folks. To wit, whether this is an "unremarkable" event, breaking news, ephemeral, whatever, whether or not you approve of the (putative) political stances of the journalists or media outlets covering this, none of that matters. The crux is this: does this event meet the GNG? And it's not merely that it does, but there are many top-rated media sources that have commented on this event in detail. Fox News has covered it. The Economist has covered it. The New York Post has covered it. Conservative outfits to the right of Attila have covered it. If we wanted to refbomb the article, a couple hundred sources describing it in the "significant detail" the GNG requires would take more time to type in than to locate. The notability of this event is not at all in question. Ravenswing 04:29, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Also Der Spiegel, Libération, El País, to give just a few examples beyond the anglophone world. Innisfree987 (talk) 05:17, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  You claim to be against flaming but at the same time are saying that a bunch of sockpuppets, meatpuppets, and "MAGAheads" are your opposition. Really unconstructive and inflamatory. Meritous (talk) 07:45, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  If by some bizarre happenstance you're unaware of the massive descent of sockpuppets and meatpuppets upon this AfD -- to the point of it not merely being tagged, but to the exceptionally rare semi-protection of a deletion discussion -- or that quite a few of them have expressed no grounds for their stance beyond politics, I can't help you. Ravenswing 11:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Press members crying in the press about being banned on a social media site is more than a little self-serving here, wouldn't you agree? That is not unlike a bunch of bloggers blogging about getting banned and expecting Wikipedia to have an article about it. Sure there are media sources discussing it but unlike most other topics that's almost a detriment in this instance. A.S. Williams (talk) 17:51, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  So what's your answer? Declare any and all media sources unreliable where you fancy there might be a bias? Well, gosh, that'd discount just about any domestic source about a nation's politics, lifestyle, international relations. Isn't it self-serving for a sportswriter to write about sports, after all? OMG, all those reporters are being PAID to report!!! Who can trust anything they say? Ravenswing 21:58, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  My answer is that this is not notable and does not need an article on Wikipedia and that using the subjects as the sources to justify the article is specious. Many journalists are constantly trying to get each other deplatformed on social media. It isn't notable when eventually it happens to them. Please do not put words in my mouth or insinuate malicious intent. A.S. Williams (talk) 14:52, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I don't think a majority or plurality of "Delete" suggestions are from new users/sockpuppets. The only "has made few or no other edits outside this topic" notice I see is from people for "Keep." I'm personally for "Merging" the article. Meritous (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong Keep: While it's possible that there is some larger article that this should be merged into in the future (depending on the overall arc of how post-aqcuisition Twitter proceeds), these events -- suppression of a number of mainstream press accounts solely for being critical of the CEO of a major social media network -- are notable as separate from other account suspensions in their breadth and implications. AdamRoach (talk) 04:37, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge into Twitter suspensions or Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. Or split the later article into a pre and post acquisition article. Also, I believe that WP:NOTNEWS applies here. Because the topic directly relates to journalism, there will of course be a lot of reputable sources that provide info about it. But just because there are a lot of mainstream outlets covering it doesn't mean it needs to be its own article. Meritous (talk) 07:55, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Although the event might be still notable in future, the article fails WP:NOTNEWS for me. However, my choice in order of preference would be: 1) Merge into a dedicated section in either Twitter suspensions or Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk; 2) Soft Delete, to avoid losing the job done so far by various contributors; 3) Keep. I'd rather avoid outright deletion. P1221 (talk) 09:24, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• This is difficult because while I think it passes WP:NOTNEWS in terms of meriting an article or a section of an article, the fall out from it is still unfolding. I agree with the arguments that this may probably end up merged somewhere, but it's not clear where yet. My preference is merge to Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk or keep pending developments. But not delete.OsFish (talk) 09:47, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: Based on applied sourcing this subject meets GNG easily and surpasses WP:EVENTCRITERIA possessing diverse indepth significant coverage and affecting a wide geographic scope. NOTNEWS is not applicable IMHO; this meets none of those criteria. Nothing routine about this coverage. I've just added a cite from Friday's Wired article which claims the incident will have a lasting effect on the Twitter community. This article serves Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk as a subtopic article. The article name will need a separate discussion later, the previous move discussion was closed out of process by an involved editor a mere eight hours after request. BusterD (talk) 10:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or Merge: Keep for now, this is a notable event. —Legoless (talk) 11:25, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep cites many reliable sources, therefore it’s notable. Thanks, -My history teacher (talk) 11:53, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge as a recentism-biased WP:NOTNEWS. Hopefully I won't be accused of being a canvassed sock. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:09, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now, I don't think this article is likely to meet WP:PERSISTENCE and would probably better suit being merged, but per WP:RUSHDELETE it's far too early to say JeffUK (talk) 12:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Speedy delete. Self-promotion for a group of non-notable journalists trying to turn themselves into a story. This is a 2 day suspension of 7 accounts. It is, as those journalists like to say, a "nothingburger". - Lisa (talk - contribs) 12:56, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, obviously enough reliable sources in the article for notability.Just Alabama (talk) 15:13, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge to the appropriate articles per WP:PAGEDECIDE and WP:NOTNEWS. This event is part of a series of events and would be better presented to the reader as part of the other articles about this series of events, as it would be placed in context for the reader. I don't believe having this as a stand-alone spinoff article is the best editorial decision. Doesn't matter to me if the title is deleted or left as a redirect. Levivich (talk) 15:18, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge as much as possible into Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk. However, if similar high-profile suspension waves continue, this article could be notable under a different name. But obviously according to WP:CRYSTALBALL, that can't be considered at the moment. D4R1U5 (talk) 15:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge. Notice how last time we did this, this happened. If that viewcount crash isn't clear and obvious evidence that these topics are not persistent, I don't know what is. casualdejekyll 15:44, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Twitter suspensions: Specifically to the section, 2022 suspensions of journalists. WP:NOTNEWS and WP:PAGEDECIDE is applicable here. There's no need to report blow by blow/in real time the happenings on the ground. The entire article can be summarised, and has been summarised accordingly in the Twitter suspensions article. – robertsky (talk) 16:49, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: On top of the remarks about WP:NOTNEWS and WP:RECENTISM above, it's been obvious that a faction of the political establishment in the US have been absolutely livid about the changes to twitter management since Musk took control and have been looking to cause him as much trouble as possible as a result. My view is that the independent existence of this article amounts to advocacy from that faction. Correspondingly, I would like to remind my fellow editors of WP:RGW. 80.229.22.58 (talk) 20:27, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for now - I'd support merging into Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk, but it's focused almost entirely on the pre-acquisition and it would be ridiculously long in TOC size if we started putting a significant amount of post-acquisition stuff there. I think merging is better philosophically, but I don't see a great candidate article to merge into at this time. (Clearly outright deletion is the wrong call; it's notable and covered by reliable sources). CharredShorthand (talk) 18:30, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak keep, okay with merging, oppose deletion. I've held off from !voting for a while for a few reasons. I've had some very mixed feelings as WP:NOTNEWS is a legitimate concern yet the article does a fine job at sourcing a great many reliable, secondary sources. It took a lot of convincing for me to be decidedly against deletion, but it was much easier to conclude that the case for deletion is tenuous at best considering how a not insignificant percent of the delete !votes make exceptionally weak arguments. I've also been hesitant because I recognize that it would be fairly easy for certain people to weave a narrative that I'm only !voting based on partisan preferences considering that I !voted delete on Twitter Files (though I would've switched to keep by the time it was closed). So I'll try to keep this as policy-focused as I can. First, there's not really a question as to whether or not the topic achieved at least short-term general notability. All of the bullet points at WP:GNG are met pretty easily.
  

Consider that pretty much every major reliable secondary source covered it:

This still leaves a valid WP:NOTNEWS concern. Editors have correctly pointed out that an article like this, a news story about people who write the news, is likely to receive coverage in the news. Just because it was covered doesn't mean it has enduring notability. So I had to take a fresh look at NOTNEWS to be reminded of what types of stories typically fail to have enduring notability.

The first, third, and fourth bullet points at NOTNEWS aren't really concerns to me. It's not original research or a biography page, and I feel it's a stretch to reduce all the developments at Twitter to celebrity gossip when the examples at WP:NOTDIARY are primarily personal life details.

The second bullet point is the most interesting one here: routine stories (examples given: sports matches, film premieres, press conferences etc) are not inherently notable. This shouldn't be an issue, but right below WP:ROUTINE on Wikipedia:Notability (events) is WP:SENSATIONAL, and I think you can make a good-faith argument that WP:SENSATIONAL still applies, in particular "Even in respected media, a 24-hour news cycle and other pressures inherent in the journalism industry can lead to infotainment and churnalism without proper fact checking.

I don't think a lack of fact-checking is an issue here, but "24-hour news cycle" is a legitimate concern. That said, this story's already managed to be more than just a 24-hour news cycle, but it admittedly doesn't feel like something I'd expect people to care about 10 years from now (but the same can be said of infinitely many topics on the encylopedia that are perfectly fine to cover in an article of their own, I don't think the standard should be interpreted quite literally as "will this still be a popular thing to talk about in a decade?").

We should also consider that one of the notability guidelines for WP:BREAKING news is that it's not advisable to rush to deletion in a situation like this where only time will tell if notability will endure.

All of this is to say that, while NOTNEWS is by far the strongest argument against keeping it in mainspace, it's still a weak argument for full deletion here. The other arguments for deletion (which range from "this article is too left wing" to "delete because elon said so") are just noise.

Then there's the issue of whether to keep as a standalone article or whether to merge. The article's already 40,000 bytes. Can it be trimmed down to only the most noteworthy bits and pieces of it? Sure, probably. I don't think Twitter suspensions or Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk do a bad job at summarizing the event. But there's also enough information made notable by its sourcing that covering it all in a separate article would likely warrant a WP:SPLIT.

I really didn't intend to write the longest !vote ever here when this is only a weak keep, but those are my thoughts. Apologies for being rambly.

 Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:19, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep or Merge into Twitter suspensions - This is clearly a notable event, given the many many RSes which have covered it as an independent important thing. But I'm not sure it needs its own article per WP:NEVENT and WP:NOTNEWS. Only time will tell for that, and per WP:CRYSTAL, we don't forecast notability based on sources which aren't here yet. I would say we should keep the info for now, perhaps as a merge into twitter suspensions. Get rid of some of the CRUFT of the article, and some of the background which is already in that destination article. I think we could keep it as an independent article and just shorten it. Overall there is so much wild input from random articles here I predict this will be closed as WP:NOCONSENSUS. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 20:37, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now per Wikipedia:Notability (events)#Don't rush to delete articles Garuda3 (talk) 20:50, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  This is perhaps the most salient argument in this entire discussion. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 21:14, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep for now per Garuda3. ~ HAL333 22:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now perhaps merge into Twitter suspensions once the dust settles if there isn't enough to justify a separate page. The degree to which these actions have provoked broad action (e.g., warnings from the EU) and the coverage thereof show definite notability. My only question is whether, structurally, this deserves a separate page or should be folded into another. In the meantime, keep it, as we need this edit history going forward for wherever it ends up eventually. — rsjaffe 🗣️ 22:30, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The article has received significant coverage in reliable independent sources and meets WP:GNG. As explained above, there is enough material for a stand-alone article, but a summary could be incorporated elsewhere to provide comprehensive coverage. --TadejM ^{my talk} 22:56, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. It has had much coverage recently. Charizardpal (talk) 23:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete I never agree with Elon Musk on anything but here I have to say, in my own opinion, delete. NOTNEWS and frankly almost an abuse of Wikipedia. If only people put their time toward articles that actually need help or need to be written instead of jumping on a Twitter dispute of private users. Trillfendi (talk) 02:51, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia is written by volunteers. Volunteers choose what they want to write about. This is not an "abuse" of the site. -- Zanimum (talk) 04:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  The editor who specializes in creating articles for fashion models is ranting about people only working on what they want to work on and not what "needs to be written"? The lack of self awareness is staggering. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:12, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Fashion models / celebrities are very notable and there is absolutely no question that they should have articles. Meritous (talk) 18:19, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Notability =/= needs to be written, nothing meets that standard. There is absolutely nothing which needs to be written. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:05, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Horse Eye's Back Your lack of self-awareness in your sexism is what’s actually staggering here and just another example of the gender bias on Wikipedia. Had it not been for my “specialization” or expertise as others call it, an entire subject matter of Wikipedia would be almost entirely unwritten. So if anything I would know what I’m talking about in that regard. Articles about 7 or so people, half of them without Wikipedia articles themselves allegedly getting suspended from Twitter and reinstated isn’t the soap opera you want to make it out to be. Toodles. Trillfendi (talk) 05:02, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  You limit your article creation to female models? I was unaware of that, my assumption was that you edited the category and not a gender defined subset of it. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:04, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Horse Eye's Back: You're unaware of anything. Out of all articles created by me, 15% of them have been totally unrelated to fashion models.... No one has to "edits categories" (doi. Use the default sort template for that.) and a subject matter is not a category. I don't "limit" my article creation to women and my most recent Good Articles were two famous men. But what in blue hell does that have to do with this besides divert the discussion of Articles for Deletion here with irrelevant griping? Build a bridge and get over it. Trillfendi (talk) 22:31, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  In that case this is the part where you retract your baseless personal attack per WP:PA. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Horse Eye's Back: If you feel that way, you already know to take it to the noticeboard. No one ever made you reply to me to begin with talking about "my specialization", what and who I edit about outside of this on my time, and pointless misogyny. I gave my vote and went on. Enough with you. Trillfendi (talk) 23:50, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  What misogyny? I never even mentioned gender and you yourself said that your edits are not gender based so where do you get misogyny out of my criticism of your editing? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 21:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I can't comprehend how an event that got such widespread media coverage, including quotes from various governments, would be at AFD. Nfitz (talk) 03:22, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The coverage appears to be sustained and significant. The unilateral stifling of free speech on a large social media platform by its CEO has received broad, globe condemnation. Also interesting to note that this afd received a lock to prevent meddling of new and unregistered users while Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Twitter Files Investigation never did. Note how this, while getting long, is rather orderly. While that became an unwieldly clusterfuck that was closed on the basis of "keep because it got too big and we can't deal". Zaathras (talk) 05:33, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep At least for now. SIGCOV has been clearly established, and there's no reason to rush deletion as opposed to waiting to determine if this content should reside in a dedicated article. VQuakr (talk) 09:15, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Satisfies WP:GNG. According to multiple WP:RS the event is complementary to the existing articles/article sections such as Twitter suspensions#2022 suspensions of journalists, Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk and Mastodon (social network)#2022 Twitter-related spikes in adoption; it relates to all three of those but is an individual event seen as significant by the sources. It wouldn't make sense to merge everything into a single article. Thematic modularity is a key to having manageable encyclopedic content. As for the "10 years' time" test: it's credible that this will be seen as one of the key clashes (battles) between a billionaire and major Western mainstream media over the principle of free speech, of the epoch when Facebook and Twitter declined in favour of decentralised social networks such as the Fediverse. Boud (talk) 10:36, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for now. Concurring with Garuda3 and Vanilla Wizard’s argument. Personally I find this ticking all the boxes for WP:GNG and WP:COVERAGE, and to be honest this AFD seems a bit too WP:RAPID to me. While we need to wait and see if WP:LASTING is satisfied, for now this seems pretty significant for an article. SBS6577P (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The incident already had important geopolitical ramifications, with the UN and EU being involved. This has been reported by multiple WP:RS, and easily satisfies WP:GNG. The fact that the UN and other international organizations responded to this incident makes it more than a simple ban that could be seen as "partisan", but an actual topic of geopolitical concern, and reporting these reactions factually is WP:NPOV. The fact that the ban itself could be seen as "right-wing", or reporting on it as "left-wing", is ultimately a red herring given the amount of WP:RS and the subsequent reactions. Chaotic Enby (talk) 19:59, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep for the present at least. The guidance linked above about not rushing to delete articles is apt. The extent of the coverage is more than enough to justify writing about the topic somewhere in this encyclopedia, and the question of whether or not to give it its own page can better be discussed at a later date when the heat has come off. XOR'easter (talk) 20:00, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete or merge into Twitter suspensions: They were all reinstated, I believe this needs to be merged. --NAADAAN (talk) 20:18, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Even if the event is over, why does that mean the page should be deleted? We don't delete articles just because the event they cover has become historical. Nor does that by itself constitute a reason, as far as I can tell, for merging this material into another article. XOR'easter (talk) 20:33, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  And it doesn't actually look all that over: When people visit my Twitter profile, it no longer says “account suspended,” and it looks as if I’m back on the platform. Friends and strangers alike have reached out to me saying it’s good to see that I’m back on Twitter. It’s an illusion. In reality, I’m still locked out of my Twitter account unless I agree to delete a specific tweet at the behest of the billionaire. Several of the other suspended journalists are in the same boat [17]. XOR'easter (talk) 00:32, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge What happened on Dec 15th was uncontroversially and unambiguously very notable but giving it a stand alone article takes it out of its context with other notable suspensions and restorations occurring on other dates. It is better covered as part of the overall narrative of Twitter under Musk. The question of the best merge target is less obvious. Twitter_suspensions#2022_suspensions_of_journalists is plausible but I'd favour Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk given how Musk was directly and personally involved in all this. It isn't just stuff that coincidentally happened on his watch. (BTW, my second choice after "Merge" would be "Keep". There is no valid case for deleting most of this content, even if it could be tightened up a little. The idea that there is only one sentence in all this is, frankly, ludicrous.) --DanielRigal (talk) 01:36, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  This whole AfD is such a mess that I wouldn't blame a closing admin for calling it no consensus and keeping by default. I still think it probably should be merged at some point but if we don't want to open that can of worms right now, and as the consensus among more recent !votes seems to tipping towards keep, then I'm also perfectly happy for this to be a keep. DanielRigal (talk) 02:13, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, suggestions I applaud the protection applied to this.article, and would support the proposal someone made to apply it to all AfDs, not just on an ad hoc to those considered eespecially contentious. Gaming of AfDs has long been pervasive and contributes to a lot of the newbie biting and general jadedness that understandably pervades a lot of the corps of patrollers and admins trying to keep up with it. It would also forestall cries of censorship if it was universally applied.

It is good to see Wikipedia take some action at least against disinformation. I just wish it extended that beyond the blatant and notorious instances of it. Someone out there may be bristling at the description of what has gone on here as disinformation, and I do have to say that at least in the part of Twitter that I inhabit, I did not find a specific instruction to come vote in this AfD. But I think that Musk has shown he doesn't have to; his true believers have rushed to put their money into meme stocks and Dogecoins. He's been able to manipulate financial markets without so much as asking who would rid him of this troublesome x, so I see no reason to question his ability to game a Wikipedia AfD. Furthermore, many many of the above comments reflect something Musk has said or tweeted, word for word.

As for the article: I originally was inclined to agree with Masem (talk · contribs) that this is an instance of trying to cover a news event to soon. However, Musk himself and his merry troupe of bros have made it notable with what has gone on here. More importantly, this is a very important event from the point of view of free speech and journalism. The accounts of journalists being sanctioned for doing journalist things is a notable development, especially on a platform that was once seen as a beacon of free speech and standing for the truth, in the Arab Spring and elsewhere. I include the admittedly amateur citizen journalist Elon jet account in this, because it reported publicly available and accurate information.

These suspensions unquestionably are notable. I would also say this of the accounts suspended for linking to other social media platforms. This is not a free speech move. I was going to suggest merging to the suspensions article, but I read above that it's already long. It seems counterintuitive to add to an article that probably already should be spinning articles off. Probably all of the Twitter articles that deal with Elon Musk and Twitter should be reworked, but I haven't examined them in enough detail to make specific suggestions, nor is this the place for them. I hate the title though.

I would suggest grouping together any sanctions by Musk against journalists (and possibly those linking to other platforms if this results in an article of manageable size), regardless of their date. Elinruby (talk) 02:58, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, maybe Rename or Merge to an article which does not only document suspensions of December 15, but Twitter policy and Twitter moderation fluctuations after acquisition by Elon Musk and their effects in a more general context. Although for most people this started from mentioned suspensions, it went as far as Twitter creating a new "Promotion of alternative social platforms policy", which intended to ban links to Facebook, Instagram, Mastodon etc from Twitter, although only Mastodon ban was implemented in practise and rules were taken back after a day or so. But there is much more to that, like Musk's ideas on freedom of speech and digital town square and how these ideas are laid out in reality. --Märt Põder (talk) 06:53, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Valid point on extending to a broader article on the issue of free speech/censorship in online social networks and the specific incidents in the current situation that provide concrete examples. However, that would need sources with good overviews - we might have to wait a typical academic data-collection/analysis/write-up/submission/peer-review cycle of 6-18 months or longer for that. Someone could start it with e.g. non-peer-reviewed analysis articles by academics or Wikipedia-notable digital humanities researchers. But I tend to think that that sounds complementary to this individual incident (compare with e.g. articles on 'battles' as part of wars or invasions), so leaving this as a single article with a well-defined, notable scope, seems justified to me. Boud (talk) 08:58, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Comment:: There are articles for Twitter suspensions, YouTube suspensions, but none for Facebook suspensions or Instagram suspensions. Twitter is a private company, not a government. No one has a right to be allowed on Twitter. If the individual is notable, the suspension is covered in their Wikipedia bio or in the suspensions article. I've already voted delete above for these reasons. If it was a government banning journalists, then the situation would be different and worthy of a stand-alone article, imo. 5Q5|^✉ 13:08, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: I know sourcing is very good but it is very common and it is not any international or national news. We can't keep articles about small events. Monthly more than 50 accounts are banned in Youtube globally, it's is not necessary to make article on it. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 13:55, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is this very common: The suspensions were condemned by representatives of France, Germany, the United Kingdom, the United Nations, the European Union, and others. European Commission officials said the actions may have violated the Digital Services Act, ...? —Alalch E. 14:31, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  It literally is international news, having been in the Guardian as recently as yesterday (source already in the article). XOR'easter (talk) 16:41, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment on title If this article is kept, thought should be given to the likelihood that someone searching for information on Twitter would begin their search with "December". Obviously that is unlikely. Titles should state the topic in a way that facilitates retrieval. Renaming to "Twitter suspensions of December ..." would be far superior. Think about searching, not just naming. (Yes, a redirect is possible, but it shouldn't be made unnecessarily necessary.) Lamona (talk) 18:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Merge into Twitter suspensions, clear example of WP:NOTNEWS and WP:NOTDIARY. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:29, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Twitter suspensions has >300k bytes already... Given that this topic unquestionably passes WP:GNG shouldn't it be left as a stand-alone page? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 00:35, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Moreover, I've seen WP:NOTNEWS invoked a lot, but I can't see how it applies. This article is not original reporting. Nor is it based on routine coverage of routine corporate events. Nor is it celebrity gossip. The only line in WP:NOTNEWS that seems at all relevant is the opening: Editors are encouraged to include current and up-to-date information within its coverage, and to develop stand-alone articles on significant current events. XOR'easter (talk) 15:17, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's just a case of low competence editors only reading the title and not the article. People think WP:NOTNEWS means "don't cover the news" (whatever they think is news) in the same way they thunk that WP:NPOV means that content has to be "neutral" (whatever they think is neutral). Horse Eye's Back (talk) 17:34, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Honestly, I think it might be a good idea to rename WP:NOTNEWS considering just how wirespread this misunderstanding is. I've seen my share of articles deleted per it, but I don't think any of them were similar to the bulletpoints that are actually outlined at WP:NOTNEWS. The way people have been throwing it around makes it seem as if the policy is "does this feel like a really major event to me? if no, delete it" which is just not how we do things (or rather it shouldn't be, but nevertheless it sometimes is).

The ten-year test is an even weaker deletion rationale in my opinion; it's a suggestion for how to deal with a bias towards recentism. Example given there: the article about the 2020 United States presidential election doesn't need to be significantly larger than the article about the 2000 one just because it's more recent, not everything that happens at the time will be as important in the future. But even WP:10YT itself says "Editors writing today do not have a historical perspective on today's events, and should not pretend to have a crystal ball. This is especially true during a news spike, when there is mass interest to create and update articles on a current event, regardless of whether it may be historically significant later on. Also, editors updating an article affected by a current event may not necessarily be the same ones participating months (or even years) later in the clean-up and maintenance of the page. Above all else, editors should avoid getting into edit wars or contentious deletion discussions when trying to deal with recentism." How this ended up being one of the go-to things people cite as a rationale for initiating and !voting in these contentious deletion discussions is a mystery to me. Like with NOTNEWS, the way people throw it around as a delete rationale is more or less "will people look back on this event in 10 years and think it changed the world? if no, delete" which, again, bears no resemblence to what it actually says.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 19:07, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with the whole thread above; I am changing my vote to Keep. I didn't read the actual policy in depth before voting; that is a mistake on my part. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 03:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The article passes WP:GNG and yeah the topic is controversial. The article reflects the importance of the recent international backlash received by Twitter. Abishe (talk) 01:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep Article clearly passes WP:GNG, given the large amount of reliable secondary sources and the clear notability of the event. And a reminder that "bias" is not a reason to delete an article, it is a reason for revisions. Apcynan (talk) 07:50, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Journalism, News media, Computing, and Internet. jp×g 11:48, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. Incredibly obvious choice here with the sheer number and respectability level of the outlets who are cited. Absent them, sure it's a debate - with them, the only reason I'm not accusing any of the "delete" !votes of bad faith is that I don't have time to investigate them. Abeg92contribs 22:42, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep -- sustained coverage in international business and political media with wide societal impact; the events cover non only the suspensions but the selective / partial reinstatements; randomly changed company policies; the promised resignation of the CEO; etc. A significant event in the Musk & Twitter history. Oppose merge: it's not a practical solution in this situation as the article is directly relevant to multiple Wiki page, such as Acquisition of Twitter by Elon Musk; Twitter suspensions; ElonJet; Elon Musk; probably more. So it would be quite difficult to find the appropriate target for a merge/redirect. Plus the size of the article is such that a merge would not be successful. --K.e.coffman (talk) 01:33, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Significant and sustained coverage in reliable sources, clearly meets the WP:GNG. — Red XIV ^(talk) 07:23, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep meets all necessary criteria in WP:GNG, WP:N, WP:RS, etc. Buffs (talk) 08:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Question: This article appears to set a precedent, so will every journalist who gets suspended on Twitter going forward qualify for a stand-alone article on the event as long as sufficient citable sources can be found? I think you can expect many more AfDs in the future if that's the case, so what happens here with this AfD is significant. Or will it take two journalists being suspended at the same time to generate an article? 5Q5|^✉ 13:18, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• That would probably depend on whether any hypothetical future suspensions generate the kind of national/international response these did and whether that incident meets Wikipedia standards for a standalone article. But I wouldn’t worry too much about setting a precedent. Such decisions are made based upon Wikipedia’s notability policies and not whether other articles exist or not. — Hunter Kahn 14:20, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, thanks, we have to remember, though, journalists have a connection to the industry generating the citable sources and some of those sources (articles, TV reports, etc.) might be written, edited, produced, or reported by friends or even relatives, setting up conflict of interests. Slippery slope, imo. 5Q5|^✉ 14:54, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the sources we cite are secondary and independent (i.e., we have many more outlets than just the ones affected by the story, which is very much the case here), there is no issue or conflict of interest. The number of unique outlets being cited far outnumbers the total number of affected journalists. Speculating that other journalists from unrelated outlets might be friends of the ones affected by the story is baseless guesswork and not a valid rationale for, well, anything. There is no slippery slope, no precedent being set, nothing out of the ordinary happening here. I don't see how it's a landmark ruling for an article to be kept because it effortlessly met the notability criteria. IMO the only reason why this was ever controversial is because it doesn't intuitively feel that notable, but our intuition isn't a great metric for determining notability, hence why we have policies and guidelines.  Vanilla  Wizard 💙 23:36, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per above discussion between XOR'easter, Horse Eye's Back and Vanilla Wizard about how WP:NOTNEWS does not mean not to cover what's in the news. WP:EVENTCRIT -- Events are ... very likely to be notable if they have ... international ... impact and were very widely covered in diverse sources. This is a normal article that does not set a precedent of any type. The article can't be merged to Twitter suspensions per WP:NOMERGE. —Alalch E. 15:29, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep The fact that this Wikipedia article has been mentioned by several news outlets suggest that the topic it covers is notable. And there's plenty of sourcing on the topic itself. Jweiss11 (talk) 21:51, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 20:35, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Theta Kappa Sigma Sorority (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Currently has zero in-depth sourcing from independent, reliable, secondary sources. Searches turned up a few brief mentions, but zero in-depth coverage. Had redirected, but was reverted without improvement. Onel5969 ^{TT me} 20:23, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete and/or salvage the information into Gamma Kappa.Naraht (talk) 20:26, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per nom. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 23:22, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:24, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete lack of SIGCOV Bruxton (talk) 19:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 20:02, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Evangelos Georgiou (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Can't find any evidence that Georgiou passes WP:GNG/WP:SPORTBASIC. Best sources are Super Sport FM, which is a copy and paste of a press release from his club, and Sigma Live, which merely states that he had a good performance in one match. You can't build a substantial biography from this type of coverage, only a stats stub, which is what we have currently. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:57, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Article fails WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:32, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:53, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nicky Ioannou (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Played part of 2 matches in the 4th tier of England before seemingly disappearing from the public eye. WP:NFOOTBALL no longer exists so Ioannou needs to meet WP:GNG and WP:SPORTBASIC to have an article. No hits in Google News, ProQuest or the British Newspaper Archive which casts some doubt on whether the significant coverage in multiple independent sources exists. Since there is not yet a list of all Barnet FC players, I'm not seeing any appropriate WP:ATD at this moment in time. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:44, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Probably delete I know Nicky, played with him years ago, the bio is missing two non-league clubs, but ye, not really enough for GNG. Regards. Govvy (talk) 23:19, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Article fails WP:GNG. Jogurney (talk) 15:57, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - A couple of appearances at the lowest level of English League football own there own are not enough to make someone notable. Equally a non-league career in itself is also generally not going to be enough to make a subject notable enough for an article. As far as I can see there is nothing else (such as significant coverage) that would suggest any other ground for notability then this is a fairly clear case. Dunarc (talk) 23:16, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep per WP:NEXIST since the consensus is that there are sources to establish notability. If the current content doesn't reflect the sources, editors are welcome to stub and/or rewrite it. RL0919 (talk) 19:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Richard Freeman (cryptozoologist) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This article suffers from the same problems as the other related deleted articles Jonathan Downes and the Centre for Fortean Zoology (CFZ). There is a serious lack of reliable sources. Most of Freeman's books are self-published by the CFZ Press. If we look at the sourcing. Reference 1 is the CFZ website (self-published, primary source). Reference 2 is the Metro tabloid newspaper which is unreliable per WP:METRO. Reference 4 is definitely not reliable and reference 5 is a self-published blogspot [18]. The other referencing is not reliable or only mentions Richard Freeman once or twice. The most reliable source on the article is Regal's book but it is not enough to establish notability and only has a few lines about Freeman. In total if all the unreliable references were removed there would be about 3 references left on the article. Due to lack of reliable sources and the way the article is written (it reads as promotion), I believe the article should be deleted. Psychologist Guy (talk) 17:23, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It should also be noted that the user who created the article has admitted to being an employee of CFZ Press [19] (they have not edited since 2008), suspicions were raised about this account being a sock-puppet in a previous afd. Psychologist Guy (talk) 17:30, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• See however the Guardian [20], and note that his works are currently on sale from WHSmith, which generally eschews self-published work of no interest to the public. Also a named-author bit here:[21]. The fundamental problem is that this bloke lives in a grey zone between fantasy and reality, dealing with imaginary monsters that feel more like steam punk/fantasy than reputable zoology, so he's going to attract a lot of attention from sensationalist sources. Nevertheless he has a substantial public profile, and the nominator has said it themselves: "In total if all the unreliable references were removed there would be about 3 references left on the article." Three's enough; why not just trim this down to a non-promotional, simple statement of who he is and what he's done, supported by that tiny handful of references, and leave it at that? Elemimele (talk) 18:02, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

If I or someone removes all the unreliable references and keep the 3 reliable sources there will be about one or two lines on the article of text because two of those sources hardly mention Freeman. It isn't enough to establish notability. I have not seen any detailed sources that discuss Freeman's life in detail. The idea of a one or two line article is a joke, that is not even a stub. Just because a source is reliable does not mean it makes this man notable. The sources need to be detailed. Here is an example of a reliable source on the article [22] it merely quotes Freeman saying that he had seen a Wels catfish. This isn't a good source to establish notability. Psychologist Guy (talk) 18:56, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep I did a search with The Wikipedia Library and found several sources about him, including with a fair bit of background info on his life. Covers several of the citation needed sentences in the current article, it looks like.

• Brown, Helen (July 12, 2006). "The monster detectives". The Independent. pp. 59, 60. Retrieved December 10, 2022 – via Newspapers.com.
• Hancox, Dan (June 9, 2005). "In the lab: The worm that didn't turn up". The Guardian – via Gale OneFile.
• Daly, Ailbhe (June 10, 2019). "Search For The Mythical Peiste". Daily Mirror – via Gale OneFile.
• Durn, Sarah (February 28, 2022). "Could 'Monsters' Exist in the Modern World?". Atlas Obscura. Retrieved December 10, 2022.

So I think there's enough for at least a good stub currently. Certainly more than just the few sentences you stated above. Silverseren^C 19:59, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I thought AO was USERG, but that article looks like it might not be. DM is a bit iffy for BLP:s, IMO. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:59, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The AO article seems to be by one of the actual editors for the magazine, so not usergenerated. I made sure to check. :) And agreed on the Daily Mirror, it would only be a minor contributor to notability (and it has the least info on Freeman in it anyways), but I thought to include it in my list since it is something, however minor. Silverseren^C 22:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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doesn't seem like any of that is the in the article at present, might be best to just WP:BLOWITUP and start over—blindlynx 20:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and TNT, the sources above are ok but wow, we need a renewal here. Oaktree b (talk) 00:41, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 22:48, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Teen Bayka Fajiti Aika (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Appears to fail WP:NFILM. One review found, [23], but not sure if it is a reliable source. In any case, films need 2 reviews to pass notability. All other citations are film database sites or links to actors in film or routine announcements. DonaldD23 talk to me 16:28, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Film and India. DonaldD23 talk to me 16:28, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: The review is from Daily News and Analysis which was a newspaper published by Zee Media Corporation so it can be reliable but I can't found any other review except from DNA News. ​​​​​​​𝐋𝐨𝐫𝐝𝐕𝐨𝐥𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐭𝟕𝟐𝟖🧙‍♂️^{Let's Talk !} 10:49, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Already PROD'd, not eligible for Soft Deletion. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:47, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Two review Sakal [24] and Pudhari [25].

AShiv1212 (talk) 05:14, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete. A single review is insufficient to pass WP:GNG or WP:NFILM. I also found this but it has little editorial policies to demonstrate that it is a WP:RS, so I am at delete. VickKiang (talk) 02:13, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep as three reliable sources reviews have now been identified in this discussion enabling a pass of WP:GNG so that deletion is unnecessary in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:16, 20 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Weak Keep per the additional refs AShiv1212 found. Of the total three reviews, two are WP:RS newspapers that meet WP:NEWSORG and another is potentially RS due to publication by Daily News and Analysis, so overall IMO WP:GNG is weakly passed. VickKiang (talk) 04:37, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 19:20, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

2023 USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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2023 USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships

This article is written in the past tense about the future, which violates Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, and so violates verifiability. It has already been to draft space once and moved back to article space, so should not be unilaterally draftified again. Robert McClenon (talk) 20:07, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Oregon-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 23:45, 2 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, to retain the work which has been put in to this article. I have modified it to "is scheduled ...", the wording used in 2024 Summer Olympics. It can be updated back to "was" in 8 months' time. PamD 08:28, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Draftification would also retain the work. There is no need/info for an article to exist at this stage. Star Mississippi 13:41, 4 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: Obviously not ready. WP:TOOSOON Can be undeleted when ready in order to recover the work put in. Could Draftify 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:42, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – filelakeshoe (t / c) 🐱 12:29, 10 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Move to draftspace as way WP:TOOSOON for an article, as it's 7 months until the event. Drafting will keep the article history, and it can be moved back when there's more information and sources in 6-7 months time. Joseph2302 (talk) 10:23, 11 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep WP:CRYSTAL allows for articles to be created for future events if they are notable and almost certain to take place, which is true for this event. Also, it has already received significant coverage from the announcement of the venue and schedule as shown here and here (the latter is already in the article). Frank Anchor 16:58, 16 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:46, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree that Wikipedia:CRYSTAL clearly allows this, especially given the notability and proximity of the event. The article just needs improvement. QuintinK (talk) 23:57, 21 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep — The event has already been announced, with details (perhaps too many details in the article, but we can edit those down) White 720 (talk) 18:24, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Israel Goldstein Youth Village. Vanamonde (Talk) 19:51, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Lycée Havat-Hanoar-Hatsioni (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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This is a "campus within a campus". Basically a program of a school. Both articles are short. Should be selectively merged into Israel Goldstein Youth Village. gidonb (talk) 17:57, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Merge - I'm all for a merge WhisperToMe (talk) 18:27, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Merge - to Israel Goldstein Youth Village. Reasonable target for a merge, and the sources in the article and what I was able to find online don't support a standalone article, with the usual caveat that I do not speak Hebrew therefore there may be a great deal in that language that would show notability that I just can't find. If someone finds such sources I would be more than happy to reassess. - Aoidh (talk) 04:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. RL0919 (talk) 19:15, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bára Klakstein (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View AfD | edits since nomination)

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Fails WP:GNG and lacks WP:SIGCOV. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 17:54, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:48, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. GiantSnowman 17:16, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - good research below, sources show notability. GiantSnowman 21:05, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@GiantSnowman:

• Keep - Looks like a notable sportswoman to me, with plenty of national-level coverage of her dual career representing her country at both handball and football/soccer. 288 "hits" at in.fo including a short 2004 write up for getting in the handball "team of the year", a 2003 interview while captaining the Faroes at the Football at the 2003 Island Games – Women's tournament, a 2005 interview before a Cup final (?) with her handball club Stjørnan, and this which goes into substantial WP:DEPTH, in that it touches on her family life and career outside football. More recently she's been in the news while coaching the national youth teams (WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE) There are offline sources [26] (WP:DIVERSE) Playing for the national football team at the same time as her daughter in 2012 produced English language coverage at UEFA and RSSSF. UEFA also included them in a 2015 list of "Europe's ultimate footballing families". While the national newspaper Norðlýsið produced an article headlined: "The Shanklys, The Maldinis, The Laudrups, The Charltons and The Klaksteins". There is a German wiki article and evidence of coverage in German [27] (WP:GEOSCOPE). Faroesoccer.com seems to disagree with our article and suggest she debuted for the national team way back in May 1996 and had a 17-year national team career, as well as playing 39 games in the UEFA Women's Champions League. So it seems reasonable to assume that an editor who could speak Faroese and/or had access to offline sources would be able to find way more coverage than I did. Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 20:14, 18 December 2022 (UTC) @GiantSnowman:[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Handball-related deletion discussions. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:33, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - the in.fo and UEFA coverage is enough to take this over the line Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:51, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Google result shows multiple reliable source about her. Puvasoca‬ (talk) 6:28, 22 December 2022 (UTC)
• Keep passes GNG.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:31, 23 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep passes WP:GNG.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 17:25, 24 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.