Talk:Israel–Hezbollah conflict (2023–present)

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This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination. Discussions: No consensus, 26 October 2023, to October 2023 Israel–Lebanon border clashes, see discussion. Moved, 22 November 2023, to 2023 Israel–Lebanon border conflict, see discussion. Not moved, 25 January 2024, to Israel–Hezbollah War (2023–present), see discussion. Not moved, 11 April 2024, to Israel–Lebanon–Syria conflict (2023–present), see discussion. Not moved, 8 June 2024, to Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present), see discussion. Not moved, 31 July 2024, to Israel–Hezbollah war (2023–present), see discussion.

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Hi, in the casualties it says: "19 soldiers killed (3 non-combat)". Please change it to "18 soldiers killed (3 non-combat)", as this is the number used in the refrenced article.

In the description of the amount of Israeli soldiers casualties the article is being cited as:

"Fifteen soldiers and a local security officer have also been killed in attacks claimed by the Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror groups on the border with Lebanon since the fighting started... The military's list also includes a soldier killed by friendly fire in the West Bank, a soldier killed due to malfunctioning ammunition on the Lebanon border, two soldiers killed in a tank accident in northern Israel, and a number of other deadly incidents amid the war but not directly related to the fighting."

But the "soldier killed by friendly fire in the West Bank" part isn't relevant to this article (and also covered by another wikipedia article here).

Additionaly, I suggest shortening the added description only to the relevnat parts:

"Fifteen soldiers and a local security officer have also been killed in attacks claimed by the Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror groups on the border with Lebanon since the fighting started... The military's list also includes ... a soldier killed due to malfunctioning ammunition on the Lebanon border, two soldiers killed in a tank accident in northern Israel"

Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 09:58, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

you lost all credibility when you said "Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror groups" Waterlover3 (talk) 11:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

They're quoting this article [1] Chomik! (talk?) 13:29, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is the quote that already appears in this wiki article, not something that I wrote. Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 07:59, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the PIJ is, in fact, a terror group. Eitan Drutman (talk) 03:48, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the number includes the security officer killed. I clarified that in the infobox. Chomik! (talk?) 14:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Are you sure? As I understand it, there are 15 soldiers and security officers that have been killed in combat. In addition, there are 3 that were killed due to non-combat incidents (but related to the Hezbollah-Israel conflict).

Anyway, thank you for the clarification that tou have made. Guy Haddad 1 (talk) 08:05, 28 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Shortened the quote for sake of clarification as you requested. EkoGraf (talk) 16:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have just been evacuated from northern Israel for the army is gearing up for a retaliatory offensive into Lebanon. I have been told that the offensive is set to begin 45 minutes from now but have heard nothing. Prepare the editors for impartial updates on the subject 2A01:73C0:501:D1EA:A05A:AA41:782:678C (talk) 19:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Source? Waleed (talk) 16:52, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Trust me bro" ;-) Eitan Drutman (talk) 03:35, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If it is true , it is a limited operation. And still, why would you tell such information to the Internet? Why would you risk the soldiers who are protecting you? You putted them in a huge danger! You could have got some of them killed! As an Israeli, you should be ashamed. Eitan Drutman (talk) 03:37, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think individuals like Lieutenant colonel Alim Abdallah, or Ali Hussein Barji should be considered among their respective sides "commanders and leaders". These are mid level commanders at most, there are probably 20 Lieutenant colonels of the idf currently deployed along the Lebanese border... 2A13:54C2:F000:50D0:A958:E79A:1629:FD1E (talk) 17:52, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

A valid point. I'm not knowledgeable enough to remove the names. Anyone? — kashmīrī ^TALK 22:22, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kashmiri: It appears that when a high-ranking member of the organizations listed in the infobox dies, their name is indiscriminately added to the list. I agree that the list needs cleaning, and I think that only the names of the highest ranking leaders should appear. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:05, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can start by removing the two names I suggested, I'm not super familiar with hezbollah internal hierarchy, so if somebody has any additional input, that would help.

What I'm certain of is that a lieutenant colonel shouldn't be considered among the idf 'leaders'.... 2A13:54C2:F000:50D0:A958:E79A:1629:FD1E (talk) 08:58, 1 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd remove everyone except:

- Hassan Nasrallah

- Naim Qassem

- Benjamin Netanyahu

- Yoav Gallant

- Ori Gordin

The list is artificially inflated at the moment because it seems like any kill, no matter how insignificant is being added as if they were significant. -- RisingTzar (talk) 18:07, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

we sould maybe listen to hezbollah when they announc the death of their members and keep Taleb Abdullah, Wissam al-Tawil, Muhammad Nimah Nasser. when annoucing their death, hezbollah called them and only them (till shukr death) 'commander" https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hezbollah-confirms-death-of-senior-commander-in-idf-strike-in-south-lebanon/

we should also keep shukr, he was even higher but probably remove Barji, there are tree dozen hezbollah senior opperatives who got killed

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/israeli-assassinations-top-hamas-and-hezbollah-officials Anticonstitutionnelist (talk) 13:43, 4 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree, I don't think we can trust them when they call them "commanders" as they are not impartial in this case. It's important to recognize that that Hezbollah, Iran, etc all glorify killings of their own members as martyrs. It's used for their propaganda as virtuous and a rallying cry. RisingTzar (talk) 18:26, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IMO the best solution is to find sources where they are clearly presented as MAJOR leaders/commanders PRIOR to their killing. We cannot rely on how they are glorified after the fact. RisingTzar (talk) 18:29, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I second this. But I would add Herzi Halevi as he is the chief of staff of the idf, and Fuad Shukr, as he is the former chief of staff for hezbollah (before he died) 2A13:54C1:F000:2FF:E70C:3E6B:6186:AB4D (talk) 12:13, 11 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, this sounds reasonable to me. RisingTzar (talk) 21:29, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all in June 2024 section: "Six Israeli soldiers and five civilians were injured while fighting fires sparked by Hezbollah missiles near Kiryat Shmona. Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs of Iran made his first overseas visit as foreign minister to Lebanon, during which he confirmed that the Iranian government was engaged in negotiations with the United States hosted by Oman. Forest fires in northern Israel were erupted the entire week which reportedly resulted in 2,500 acres of land burnt and the hospitalization of 11 people due to smoke inhalation."

The first and the last sentences talk about the same event, and should be condensed into one (the latter is more informative, so it probably be the one that is kept, only "11 people" should probably be changed to "six Israeli soldiers and five civilians").

And also in July 2024 section:

"US-made Boeing manufactured Apache warplanes were used in the strike."

AH-64 Apache is an attack helicopter, not a "warplane". It should probably be a link as well since it's the first mention of it in this page (preferably linking to the Boeing AH-64 Apache#Israel section of the page). Whutever1 (talk) 13:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done, thank you! Chomik! (talk?) 15:56, 6 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why update the IDF casualties but not Hezbollah when the number of the Hezbollah casualties stand above 400. the number in the page is still 386. Teh FT678 (talk) 15:59, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The death toll for Hezbollah is 416/417 now. 2A00:23C8:180E:EE00:95BD:BD07:425C:DAC2 (talk) 21:22, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hezbollah Death Toll should be UPDATED TO 416/417 kia. 2A00:23C8:180E:EE00:95BD:BD07:425C:DAC2 (talk) 21:21, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 22:01, 19 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Hezbollah death toll should be updated to 418 killed. Here is the citation on this live from L'orient-Le jour at 09:13 H ^[2] Anticonstitutionnelist (talk) 12:03, 20 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a bit conflicted on whether "Islamic Azz Brigades" should be moved as a unit of Hezbollah. The group was completely unknown/likely never existed prior to the conflict and most scholars believe that it is a Hezbollah front organization (granting them some form of plausible deniability). It also doesn't appear to have been active for more than a few days, so it might make sense to remove them all together. RisingTzar (talk) 09:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]