Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2021 February 15

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15 February 2021

  • Jessi Slaughter cyberbullying case – No consensus. There is no consensus about whether the speedy deletion being contested here, which has been made on BLP grounds, was justified. In accordance with our practice, this means that the speedy deletion is overturned. The article can be resubmitted to AfD if desired. Sandstein 21:53, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived debate of the deletion review of the page above. Please do not modify it.
Jessi Slaughter cyberbullying case (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)

Article has continued notability since 2010; subject has been interviewed by Chris Hansen as 'victim zero' among numerous people who have been the subject of an investigation (including possible FBI investigations) into sexual abuse against Dahvie Vanity since 2009. The cyberbullying case is directly relevant to this as background and has been mentioned in most sources covering the incident.

The issues around the 2010 deletion focused on the fact the subject was a child; this is irrelevant, as they are an adult now. They have given on-the-record interviews with numerous reliable sources, and the continued mentions in numerous reliable sources for over a decade establishes a degree of notability for the event. The reason this page was deleted more recently was due to alleged BLP violations due to the inclusion of people's personal names (which were mentioned in RSes) and alleged questionable sourcing, which can be fixed with a rewrite and revdels. Bangalamania (talk) 05:38, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Given that it's been over 10 years, I see no reason that this shouldn't be allowed to be recreated. Having said that, I'm not sure we need to overturn the past deletion to allow that. Jclemens (talk) 07:20, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I recently recreated the page with the new info, and it was deleted by SlimVirgin, who mentioned BLP violations due to real names and allegations in the article. As far as I'm aware these were all backed up by reliable sources. −Bangalamania (talk) 09:43, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ah, missed that, sorry. For the recent deletion, I agree with Stifle that G4 is inappropriate. For BLP concerns, I would suggest that the contentious names be removed and discussed on the talk page: if they are indeed in RS, there's no reason to scrub them from Wikipedia entirely as if they were unsubstantiated allegations, just to make conscientiously sure that they're not featured in the article inappropriately. Jclemens (talk) 15:29, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse Speedy as G10, not G4, as the issue is really negative BLP material, not how close it was to a previous article. Based on the sourcing presented here, I agree that SV's action was correct, just listed under the wrong criteria, and that no encyclopedic article can be made from this mess without violating our BLP protections. Jclemens (talk) 02:23, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • This seems correct, G10, not G4. Can anyone who can see the history say that some of the content is G10 worthy and unable to be temp undeleted for this review? —SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:04, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn the recent G4 speedy deletion. G4 applies only to deletions via a deletion discussion. Whilst there was a live deletion discussion when this article was deleted, the deletion was expressed as done under WP:IAR. As such, the article did not qualify for speedy deletion and must be restored. If anyone wants to list at AFD, they can.
    If the closure of this DRV results in the article being undeleted, the closer should take care to only restore the edits from this month, and not the previously deleted content. Stifle (talk) 11:54, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I deleted the article per WP:BLPDELETE because it contains serious allegations against a named individual and the sourcing is weak. There was no version I could revert to that didn't contain the allegations, which were not part of the article when it was deleted in 2010. I advised Bangalamania at WP:BLPN#Jessi Slaughter cyberbullying case to open this DRV. During Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jessi Slaughter cyberbullying case, concerns included BLP1E, NOTNEWS, poor sourcing, lack of balance, non-encyclopaedic. SarahSV (talk) 19:13, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which allegations and which named individual are you talking about? As far as I'm aware the sourcing was strong for all the allegations included in the article. If there was something so egregiously wrong in there, then I apologise, but as I say that could very easily be removed and the past revisions deleted ASAP. If you are referring to the sexual assault allegations against Vanity (which was my main reasoning for recreating the article), they are mentioned here in detail, and includes sources which mention the controversy and individual this article is talking about in their reporting. It should not be contentious to include allegations, so long as it's made clear they are allegations and not proven fact.
And re: the 2010 deletion discussion, as I've said before the BLP1E and NOTNEWS rationales no longer apply, as this is still something being discussed a decade after the actual events, and now links to a wider discussion about allegations of sexual assault and investigations into Vanity, which were revealed in 2018–19. These are interrelated events, but not the same. Perhaps the title and focus of the article should be shifted away from the 2010 events and focus more on the more recent allegations, but this is important as background – and was mentioned by a number of reliable sources which were included in the article. --Bangalamania (talk) 20:17, 15 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Follow the advice at WP:THREE. Tell us three (and no more than three) WP:GNG meeting sources. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:05, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Here are sources which establish continued notability (& link to wider allegations of sexual abuse which are mentioned at the BOTDF article mentioned above): [1] [2] [3] – Bangalamania (talk) 19:35, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • There’s something about these sources that I don’t like, “lacks a distant perspective from the subject”. It feels like rolling gossip magazine coverage. I recommend allowing a fresh AfD. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 20:23, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The cyberbullying isn't the reason I deleted it. The issue is the serious allegation against a named person, and the sources for that are weak and gossipy. Those allegations shouldn't be in the other article either. SarahSV (talk) 22:55, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Understood. I am here not talking about overturning the G4, but about the possibility of ever re-creating the article based on sources like these. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:12, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even ignoring the serious allegations, it just isn't an encyclopaedia article. SarahSV (talk) 23:45, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • It agree, it does not look like a viable encyclopedic topic. But for the sake of respect for process, it might be best for an AfD to test consensus, if someone wants to insist. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 03:22, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Overturn per Stifle. I know this is not relevant, but I also found another source. [4] Scorpions13256 (talk) 17:22, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse the article contained allegations that a named, non-public figure physically abused a child, as well as allegations that another person who doesn't have a standalone article here engaged in rape and sexual abuse of children. There was no indication in the article that either of them had been convicted of any sort of crime. The article even repeated allegations of sexual abuse made against one of these people which don't have anything to do with the ostensible subject of the article, other than that it was the same person. I'm sure there is scope for writing another article about this but we have to do better than that. Hut 8.5 20:29, 17 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse- given the BLP issues, there is no way the article history can be restored. I have no strong opinions about making a new article from scratch, so long as it does not repeat those BLP issues. Reyk YO! 11:49, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Reyk:, I know you know a lot more about our BLP policies than I do. My sense is that when we have well documented accusations against a public figure, we do include them , but against a non-public figure we generally avoid doing so [5]. Am I getting our policies right? If so, are you saying that the person(s) named aren't public figures? Something else? I'd like to be consistent with policy here, but I'm not 100% sure I know what that is. Hobit (talk) 19:02, 18 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • overturn speedy I don't see how this meets any speedy criteria. If there is an issue with a party being named in the article it can be removed/delreved as needed. And it's not even clear if naming the person is a problem per our policies given I *think* that those rules don't apply to well-covered stories when the person in question is a public person. All that said, if/when this goes to AfD, I might well !vote to delete via WP:TNT. But speedy deletion is for exactly the cases defined in WP:CSD and I don't see a case that this meets any CSD criteria let alone the one provided. I'm willing to be pointed to a policy that says otherwise, but I'm not seeing anything other than IAR. And without seeing the article I can't support IAR here. Hobit (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Endorse given the BLP issues, the correct nature of the old discussion, and the seemingly correct application of the new speedy deletion. SportingFlyer T·C 14:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • @SportingFlyer:Could you clarify that? Are you saying it was a good G4, G10, falls under BLPDELETE, or something else? I'm not quite sure where you are going. Hobit (talk) 20:26, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • I have no problem with the original discussion's result. I'm assuming the G4 is correct because I haven't seen the new version, but saying a G4 is inapplicable because there was no deletion discussion makes no sense as a speedy deletion was advocated for at the deletion discussion as an extreme BLP attack page. I think arguing otherwise is semantics. Also don't really care if this recreated but it does have to fix the problems of the old article, as Reyk notes. SportingFlyer T·C 22:47, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I got the strong sense that the 11-year-old article about a then underage girl was deleted because it was an attack page against her. Now it is because the person she accuses of attacking her, a public figure, is named. Do I have that right? Could someone please send me the deleted article (don't need the history, just the version deleted)? I'm having problems understanding the basis for this deletion--maybe it's just because I can't see it. Thanks. Hobit (talk) 00:53, 24 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above is an archive of the deletion review of the page listed in the heading. Please do not modify it.
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