Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kendall Yount

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There does not appear to be a clear consensus as to whether she meets the relevant notability guidelines. I note that there was movement from "Delete" to "Keep" over the course of this discussion. I suggest that the article be improved and the seemingly anomalous movement between divisions explained through reliable sources, or else I expect this article will end up here at AFD again before too long. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 02:44, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Kendall Yount

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Not yet notable as a martial artist because all of her titles are as a junior. She fails WP:MANOTE and is not notable for anything else. Article is WP:TOOSOON. Mdtemp (talk) 18:29, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:03, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete As per nomination. Does not meet WP:MANOTE or WP:GNG. Peter Rehse (talk) 13:24, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep She passes WP:GNG and has recieved many awards, and has gone to many international competitions. It shouldn't matter that they were junior-level.Bensci54 (talk) 06:35, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Keep she passes WP:GNG and has now updated on many senior accomplishments she has won as well. UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk) 20:36, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment — This athlete's record at http://www.taekwondodata.com shows her competing in the “senior” division in 2012, but then competing in the “youth” division in 2013 and 2014. Has the organization revised (or added to) its competitive divisions? Unician ∇ 21:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

comment The organization changed its age divisions during her career making her too young to compete as a senior but now she has been granted a high performance waiver that allows her to compete in the older division again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk • contribs) 22:26, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@UnitedStatesofAmerica2014, could you find the sources for the two points you mentioned, that the taekwondo organization changed their age-based categories and that Ms. Yount is now competing under an age waiver, and add those points with source citations to the article? Unician ∇ 09:11, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

— UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

~~Delete~~ Does not meet any of the notability criteria for martial artists at WP:MANOTE. According to the latest WTF rankings she has earned 0 points in her division. Consensus has always been that junior events do not show notability since even junior Olympic champions have been deleted. Merely competing as an adult is insufficient for notability. This article appears to have been created WP:TOOSOON. Taekwondodata also has no record of her placing at the U.S. Championships (US Open is not the same thing). Besides results, coverage appears to be local in nature. If sources can be provided to show she meets MANOTE, I will happily change my vote. Papaursa (talk) 02:00, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The “Taekwondo Data” site claims 38 points career total, but then breaks them down by age- and weight-class and lists individual scores which total 44.5 points. (Is that the contradiction that it seems to be? My ignorance of Taekwondo scoring makes that a real question.) Either way, it's not zero. Unician ∇ 09:41, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those points are created and kept by that website and combine junior and senior events, I was referring to the official world rankings. As far as taekwondodata.com goes, do you really consider a ranking of #3395 notable? I was mistaken about the zero official points (I was looking at the 62kg class). It turns out she has 3.6 points in the 67 kg class [1], which puts her in a 12 way tie for 200th in that division--hardly notable. Papaursa (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment she meets MANOTE by winning one of America's largest martial arts organization's world championships twice, meeting the criteria of "Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; - more than a few dozen competitors"

She is also a very repeated medalist as a high 3rd dan black belt meeting the MANOTE criteria of "Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion)" Lastly she has many news videos and articles written about her meeting the MANOTE criteria of "Subject of an independent article/documentary" — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk • contribs) 02:23, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So her titles were in open competition against black belts of all ages and open to all taekwondo competitors? If so, please document that. Given that the WTF (the generally recognized TKD governing body) has 200+ competitors ranked ahead of her in her division, "world champion" claims need good supporting evidence. Papaursa (talk) 02:30, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Her world championship titles are in the American Taekwondo Association as she is a competitor in both . UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk) 02:37, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Adult ATA world title claims were deeming insufficient at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Abe Tran and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Clark (martial artist) (2nd nomination). Papaursa (talk) 03:27, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Seems to meet at least one of the MANOTE criteria, if not more. Papaursa, if I might ask, where is this "continual consensus" which supports deletion of junior martial artists?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Missionedit (talk • contribs)

The closest examples I can find is someone who won a medal at the Youth Olympics and was still deleted (see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Davit Ghazaryan). I could also include a world championship claim that was also deemed insufficient for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/James Guanzon. There are many junior martial artists that have been deleted (WP:NSPORTS also supports this since it's not considered as "competing at the highest level"). I could also refer you to a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Martial arts/archive 17#Kyle Watson. These are some I could come up with off the top of my head, but I believe it makes my point. Papaursa (talk) 03:22, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the combination of all the accomplishments makes her a notable artist. We can't delete all of our young martial artists because then we wouldn't have any information about them. Please help save this article.UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk) 03:59, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Papaursa has made the case about Junior competitors. The issue is also competing at the highest level and that has resulted in many more deletions not just juniors It is a pretty long standing consensus at WP:MANOTE and WP:NSPORTS.Peter Rehse (talk) 08:39, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Papaursa however she has also been competing as an adult black belt despite her age which is the highest level and she has been meddling and winning in that division as well. UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk) 14:19, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

USA Taekwondo's national championships run from 1-7 July. I checked the brackets and she is entered in the female 62 kg senior division. Please let us know how she does since her performance there should help clarify her status. Papaursa (talk) 17:52, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

she won bronze in senior. the accomplishments should be posted online soon . — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk • contribs) 01:04, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

also look at her 2012 SENIOR national champion accomplishment in the highest level (18-32) senior light weight division

http://206.17.88.25/USA-Taekwondo/Features/2012/June/29/National-Championships-Brackets-and-Results — Preceding unsigned comment added by UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk • contribs) 01:08, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep In my original post in this discussion I said I would happily change my vote if sources could be provided to show she meets WP:MANOTE. I believe that such evidence has now been presented, so I have struck my original vote. Papaursa (talk) 02:41, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

talk Papaursa Since you are obviously a very talented Wikipedian, and i am so so bad at using technology, is there any way you could help clean up and fix the issues with the page so that it is more benificial to wikipedia? UnitedStatesofAmerica2014 (talk) 03:37, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.