Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Davit Ghazaryan

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Michig (talk) 21:49, 23 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Davit Ghazaryan

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A junior judoka who has never competed as an adult, even in his home country (according to judoinside.com). Therefore, he has not come close to competing at the highest level. A medal at the junior olympics does not show notability. The only source is his fight record, so he appears to fail WP:GNG, WP:ATHLETE, and WP:MANOTE. Papaursa (talk) 21:31, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. Papaursa (talk) 21:31, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep -

He is not a junior anymore, he's now 19. Hehas compteted as an adult, check the reference (you will need a translator). Also, this shows he has multiple sources, so he does not fail GNG.

I didn't realize Olympic level isn't the highest level.--TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:50, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Junior olympics isn't. Papaursa (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Opinionated. And there's no such thing as "Junior olympics".--TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The difference between junior and youth is not significant--especially when the organizations refer to their adult events as senior. Also, I'm not seeing the significant independent coverage from multiple sources required to met GNG. Papaursa (talk) 23:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ATHLETE gives no critera for judoka.--TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Again - opinion. And there are plently of athletes pages with just a single source. That WP pages is mainly meant for MMA fighters. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But WP:MANOTE does, unless you're claiming judo is not a martial art. Papaursa (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Article gives same "general" critera as ATHLETE --TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Did you look under the criteria for martial artists? "3.Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; -more than a few dozen competitors, 4.Repeated medalist in another significant event;- (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion)." Papaursa (talk) 23:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Who says the Youth Olympics aren't signifigant? --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Under Generally acceptable standards: have participated in a major international amateur or professional competition at the highest level such as the Olympics.

So, he doesn't fail ATHLETE or MANOTE.--TheShadowCrow (talk) 21:50, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, judoinside.com doesn't show any senior (i.e., no age restriction) competitions for him. Previous discussions have said junior events, even the junior olympics, do not show notability. Papaursa (talk) 22:06, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But there is a link about him participating in a senior intern. tournement.--TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As I said, news.am does. As long as a WP doesn't say that, it's just opinion. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:08, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's been consensus in previous AfD discussions. Also, see Wikipedia talk:Notability (sports)/Archive 13#Youth Olympics. Papaursa (talk) 22:16, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Dream made many good points that no body provided a good argument against. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 22:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You mean the fact that no sport seems to recognize junior accomplishments as notable? At this point I'll wait to see what others have to say. Papaursa (talk) 23:02, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, the fact that:

The Youth Olympic Games are controlled by the International Olympic Committee and done the same way as the Olympics, the only difference is the age requirements. Skilled athletes from around the world earn their way there, and get ample media coverage worldwide. So shouldn't competing in this make them notable enough to have a Wikipedia article?

And who says no sport does? The Youth Olympics are pretty new and have only been held once so it's not like most sports have a standard yet. In the end these athletes ranked highly in the most elite competition they are eligable for. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 23:28, 8 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It's not "the most elite competition they are eligible for" it's "the highest level of competition". Under your standard green belts can be notable because they won a 9 and 10 year old underbelt division. Papaursa (talk) 00:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Meets WP:ATHLETE.--Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 23:02, 9 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I cite the following examples of showing junior martial artists aren't notable. First, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Antonia Katheder was a just completed discussion of a taekwondo competitor who medaled at the youth olympics and yet was found not notable. Second, at the Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2010 European Junior Judo Championships discussion it was determined that the 2009 and 2010 world junior judo championships were not considered notable. Papaursa (talk) 00:47, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Antonia hasn't faced senior competition, whereas Davit has. Plus, she competes in a different sport and should probably be treated differently. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 13:36, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete There's no evidence to show he's competed at the highest level of competition, which would mean the top level for adults. I've seen plenty of discussions in various sports and they always conclude that junior competitions don't show notability. I like Papaursa's analogy to show why the highest level is an absolute idea, not a relative one. Mdtemp (talk) 15:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Has not competed at the highest level. I don't believe youth competitions are enough to show notability. He may become notable (perhaps next Olympics?) but right now it's WP:TOOSOON. 204.126.132.231 (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 17:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - So as I understand it, reliable sources world wide will not write about anyone who 1. has a connection to judoka and 2. has not come close to competing at the highest level. I really don't understand why that line of thinking would make sense to anyone, even those who are young. The point of Wikipedia is to have written articles. Google news does not bring forth enough source material for the article. There's a mention at kazarianfoundation.org. In the end, there is not enough source material to meet WP:GNG so there is not enough content from which to write a Wikipedia article. If Ghazaryan compete at the highest levels but there was not enough source content from which to write a Wikipedia article, would everyone jump on the band wagon and iVote keep? What text would you then put in the Wikipedia article? -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 07:45, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 17:18, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. As per MDtemp above. 1292simon (talk) 00:49, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - the reality is we don't yet have a notability standard for the Youth Olympics, but I don't an AFD for a bronze medallist in an obscure sport should be the place for that discussion. WP:NOLYMPICS "passes" competitors at the Summer Olympics or Winter Olympics and medallists at the Paralympic Games, but does not mention Youth Olympics. I think it's a safe bet to work on the basis that if medallists at the Paralympics are considered "presumably" notable, then the same could/should/would apply to the Youth Olympics. But this probably isn't something that could be determined without some input from the folks at Wikipedia:WikiProject Olympics. Until then, we need to rely on the "default" notability standard - WP:GNG - and I can't see any way the subject is going to pass that one. So it's probably a case of WP:TOOSOON until we determine whether or not Youth Olympians are notable and/or the subject receives more coverage. Stalwart111 05:03, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:Athlete as he has not competed at the highest level. No real indicator of notability. Holyfield1998 (talk) 15:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Fails WP:GNG, no editorial references regardless of competition level consideration.--Nixie9 (talk) 02:12, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.