Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games
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New Articles (July 22 to July 28)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 15:03, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: George Harrison (executive), Tsutomu Kōno, Atelier Double, Karen (Pokémon), Super Nintend, Darkworks, Boss Brain
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Mob Entertainment, Draft:Shiny Pokémon, Draft:Cpt. Olivia Rhodes, Draft:Gameroost, Draft:Project: Delivery, Draft:Christopher Slayton, Draft:FNCS, Draft:John Cook, Draft:Truth or Lies, Draft:Learning Land, Draft:Love Each Other: Pixel RPG, Draft:Neowiz, Draft:Throttle (band), Draft:William G. Grace (Guill Grace)
- Articles redirected: 3-D Bomberman, Gnasher Shotgun, Himitsu No Aipri
- Articles moved to draft space: PlayStation 6
- Categories deleted/removed: DVD interactive technology, Worms (series), Works about arcade video games, Stealth video games by series
- New categories: Intergalactic Development games — Waxworker, Light & Shadow Production games — Waxworker, American Action games — Waxworker, Falling-sand games — QuantumFoam66, Ditherpunk video games — NoonIcarus, Independent Arts Software games — Waxworker, Random House video games — Waxworker, Rhythmic action games — ThanatosApprentice (newly tagged - originally created 3 months ago), Video games set in 1957 — Sorcier du Lac (newly tagged - originally created 3 months ago), Realtime Games Software games — Waxworker, Video games set in Istanbul — QuantumFoam66, Black Tabby Games games — Waxworker, Video games about military units and formations — QuantumFoam66, Zenda Studio games — Waxworker, Doki Doki Literature Club! characters — Pokelego999 (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago)
- New templates: {{Flux Family Secrets}} — Rich Farmbrough (newly tagged - originally created 3 years ago)
July 22
— ThanatosApprentice (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— Mousou No Sonzai
July 23
— BOZ (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— EnzoTC (newly tagged – originally created 19 days ago)
— VulcanSphere
July 24
— Captain Galaxy (was previously a redirect)
— JIP (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 2 months ago)
July 25
— Shushugah (newly tagged – originally created 2 years ago)
July 26
— Angeldeb82
— Tajotep
— OceanHok (was previously a redirect)
— Botto
— CanonNi
July 27
July 28
— Captain Galaxy (was previously a redirect)
— Zxcvbnm
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
- Given how short the main Zzz article is, seems absolutely unnecessary for the separate characters article at this time or the need for thar much table stuff in it. Masem (t) 15:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Extremely wikis/crufty content anyways. Sergecross73 msg me 15:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I also agree. There needs to be more real-world perspective content (development insight, media reception, etc.) in that article, which I haven't seen any. I already listed several ref ideas about it, so it's definitely doable and has some notability, but without anyone writing them into the article, it is just fancraft at best. SuperGrey (talk) 01:15, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Agreed. Extremely wikis/crufty content anyways. Sergecross73 msg me 15:31, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- That Microsoft and unions articles feels like something that could be expanded into " Unionuzation in the video game industry" and combine from a few other places. Masem (t) 15:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is the Baby Park spinout really necessary? It's literally just an oval race track... Sergecross73 msg me 15:30, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well it's ultimately about what people have to say about the oval race track, after all. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I am certain that one can pick nearly any feature from a video game (level, weapon, character) and if they are very much inclined, "invent" sufficient reception to claim it is notable and thus can have a standalone article. But is this separate article really necessary? Most of the time, no.
- I would really strongly want to see such spinous to be based on both the presence of reception and development insights, the latter key to give reason to discuss the facet outside of the game's context. Masem (t) 16:04, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't rightly know what the 'invention' of sufficient reception is meant to refer to? The article merely cites sources that discuss Baby Park in significant detail. Development info would be nice, but even with some popular video games, it's sorely lacking. Dev info is something I think can really help with notability, but a lack of it shouldn't necessarily hurt it either. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- We've had problems with articles like this created from a reception built on listacles and similar poor sourcing. This has a few of those but there are a couple here talking in depth on the the track... But thar said, those articles themselves are really thin. So yes it arguably passes the GNG but the GNG is not a demand to create a new article on the topic. (at least the appearances section is kept modest in contrast to Rainbow Road). Something like this asks me if there is a better larger context for the information, which may be in the main Kart article, or if there are other tracks that have sourcable details, a list of notable tracks would be reasonable. Masem (t) 18:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I don't rightly know what the 'invention' of sufficient reception is meant to refer to? The article merely cites sources that discuss Baby Park in significant detail. Development info would be nice, but even with some popular video games, it's sorely lacking. Dev info is something I think can really help with notability, but a lack of it shouldn't necessarily hurt it either. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 16:24, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Right, but there's not much at the article. Half of it is just basic description of a circular race track. The reception section is full of mundane observations like "website thought it was fun" and "website liked that it was announced for (game)". It's paper this stuff. Sergecross73 msg me 18:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- IMO Baby Park ever so slightly scooches over the notability line. This, this and this (even if it's just the first few paragraphs) would make me !vote Weak Keep in an AfD. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- That looks like routine, paper thin coverage by a number of some of the weakest sources we allow for use... Sergecross73 msg me 18:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what's wrong with Vice or Nintendo Life? Also, I wouldn't call them routine either, they don't seem to be written as part of routine Mario Kart coverage. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 21:01, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- That looks like routine, paper thin coverage by a number of some of the weakest sources we allow for use... Sergecross73 msg me 18:41, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- IMO Baby Park ever so slightly scooches over the notability line. This, this and this (even if it's just the first few paragraphs) would make me !vote Weak Keep in an AfD. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 18:35, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- Well it's ultimately about what people have to say about the oval race track, after all. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
- I nominated Category:DVD interactive technology for deletion review: Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2024 July 29#Category:DVD interactive technology. --Mika1h (talk) 15:32, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
Unused contents
There's a minor discussion over whether unused assets in Super Paper Mario are WP:Cruft. The current form is at Special:Diff/1237692497, which briefly introduces developments assets in specific regional version. I found this notable because A) it's reported at Nintendo Life, a reliable source in WP:VG/S and B) the fact that this version was released more than more than two years after the original Japanese version and has unique assets is not a universe lore but an insight into release history. I want to hear opinions about what to do. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 08:00, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I'd go so far as calling it cruft, given it's actually sourced, but it also seems totally off-topic and irrelevant for the article. The fact that the cat sprites exist may have absolutely nothing to do with the game's development at all, and be fragments of some other game. Due to this, I think it falls under WP:TRIVIA and should be removed. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 09:01, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is it fine to leave in the fact that the game was published there two years after the original release date, which is still relevant to the topic? Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 09:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Personally, if there's a reliable source mentioning it, I believe it's fair game for a mention. Emphasis on "mention" though. Probably just a sentence or two. Sergecross73 msg me 10:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- @Emiya Mulzomdao, this is why I wanted to sit down and clarify, as it seems to be more a case of what/how to include the info over whether or not we should. Zxcvbnm is right that the details of this article are very trivial, as details usually are in the grand scheme of things. However, your recent rewording after the revert is written very well and I'm all in favor of keeping it this way. I'd also recommend mentioning the two year gap of the Korean version. Panini! • 🥪 16:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, the release year gap seems like more of an important information. Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 12:33, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Emiya Mulzomdao, this is why I wanted to sit down and clarify, as it seems to be more a case of what/how to include the info over whether or not we should. Zxcvbnm is right that the details of this article are very trivial, as details usually are in the grand scheme of things. However, your recent rewording after the revert is written very well and I'm all in favor of keeping it this way. I'd also recommend mentioning the two year gap of the Korean version. Panini! • 🥪 16:21, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Personally, if there's a reliable source mentioning it, I believe it's fair game for a mention. Emphasis on "mention" though. Probably just a sentence or two. Sergecross73 msg me 10:19, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
- Is it fine to leave in the fact that the game was published there two years after the original release date, which is still relevant to the topic? Emiya Mulzomdao (talk) 09:38, 31 July 2024 (UTC)
Heads up: Game Informer officially shutting down
Per an official announcement made today. Sucks to be losing such an invaluable source. If we haven't already, we should definitely make sure any GI references either existing or going forward are properly archived for if/when the site is taken offline. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 16:24, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Wow, what a bummer. They've always been such a strong source. Thanks for the heads up. Sergecross73 msg me 16:45, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah I agreed with you @Sergecross73, Game Informer was one of the few best websites and magazines for video game news and now it's gone. NatwonTSGTALK 18:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Is the site already down? I currently get "The website encountered an unexpected error. Please try again later.", although that might also point towards an overload. IceWelder [✉] 16:47, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- It's overload, yeah. I thought the same thing, but then it came back up. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 17:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Update: The site is officially dead. All pages seem to be replaced with the shutdown ("The Final Level: Farewell from Game Informer") notice, not just redirected. λ NegativeMP1 17:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes. I had to replace the URL status with archived Game Informer links from "live" to "dead" on articles that have them, and I just hope you do the same. Forutnately, I can still look up video games in the archived link for GI's Legacy Review Archives shown here. Angeldeb82 (talk) 18:58, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- I have done a few spot checks and looks like archive.org is pretty good for archiving gi pages, including recent stuff like their Hades 2 coverage in May. I don't think we need to panic too much about old sourcing using gi. --Masem (t) 17:08, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, as is often the case with media outlets closing, the problem is not that the pages aren't archived (they usually are), it's that it becomes so much harder to find relevant sources once they stop being indexed by search engines. There's a whole trove of useful sources that are buried in archive.org that you have to know to look for and spelunk in various snapshots to find the specific url if you don't have it on hand. It's a mess. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I'm thinking of traveling through some defunct sources to add as ref ideas. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 18:34, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, searching them now will be an issue, however, there's no immediate panic in regards to our heavy usage of GI that we should still have Wayback (if not other cached methods) to keep them, compared to other past site shutdowns. Masem (t) 12:37, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, as is often the case with media outlets closing, the problem is not that the pages aren't archived (they usually are), it's that it becomes so much harder to find relevant sources once they stop being indexed by search engines. There's a whole trove of useful sources that are buried in archive.org that you have to know to look for and spelunk in various snapshots to find the specific url if you don't have it on hand. It's a mess. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:32, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- Game Informer was such a useful source. There are a few Game Informer articles that haven't been archived. I was once making an article with GI as a review, but the review link was dead and no archives were available on multiple sites. MK at your service. 04:27, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
The page was recently created linking to numerous articles about the site's closure, but I could not find any significant coverage about the site during its actual existence. I am not sure the closure in itself is sufficient to support an article. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 03:38, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Definitely a WP:NOTNEWS failure, unless further down the line a few sources cover its history and it somehow becomes notable post-shut down. λ NegativeMP1 03:43, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- However, it clearly could be discussed at ROM hack and the content merged. Masem (t) 03:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the idea, I redirected it there since there is an agreement it shouldn't stand on its own. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- Redirecting an article less than 12 hours old and still under construction is a bad idea. There is no deadline and be patient and not bitey. It's already been significantly expanded and is still expanding. oknazevad (talk) 07:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- I never AfD or redirect an article if the sources are there or I can find sources, regardless of its size. It seems like the creator found additional sources, but there wasn't any indication it was under construction. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 07:46, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Redirecting an article less than 12 hours old and still under construction is a bad idea. There is no deadline and be patient and not bitey. It's already been significantly expanded and is still expanding. oknazevad (talk) 07:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)
- Thanks for the idea, I redirected it there since there is an agreement it shouldn't stand on its own. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:59, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
- However, it clearly could be discussed at ROM hack and the content merged. Masem (t) 03:57, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
Additional input needed at Talk:Hexuma
Input from more editors would be appreciated at a discussion on Talk:Hexuma regarding in-line citations. Thanks. Waxworker (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (July 29 to August 4)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 16:35, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: Hasbro Retro Arcade, Comparison of OpenGL and Direct3D, Ciberbit
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Dusty Welch, Draft:Avatar: The Last Airbender - Quest for Balance, Draft:Owen Davies (eSports), Draft:Underworld Gang Wars, Draft:Intoxicated Driver, Draft:Bleed Esports
- Articles redirected: Beamable, Arkham Knight
- Categories deleted/removed: Video games with expansion packs, Video game themes
- New categories: Metal Gear lead images — Kung Fu Man, Eldritch Games games — Waxworker, FreshGames — IgelRM (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), System Erasure games — Charcoal feather, Visionary Design Technologies games — Waxworker, 21st Century Entertainment games — Waxworker, Cellular automata in video games — QuantumFoam66 (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), Codemasters video game compilations — Beqwk, Punk Development games — Waxworker, RazorSoft games — Waxworker, Topologika games — Waxworker, Video games set in Yugoslavia — QuantumFoam66, Works by Daniel Pemberton — DoubleCross, Acme Animation games — Waxworker, DVD interactive technology — UnlimitedAccess (newly tagged - originally created 19 years ago), Goliath Games games — Waxworker, I'MAX games — Beqwk, Teichiku games — Beqwk, Panther Games video games — Waxworker
- New templates: {{The Lawnmower Man}} — Trivialist, {{Free Fire World Series}} — WikiEditPS
July 29
— Yukitanooki
— MRC LTD (newly tagged – originally created 17 years ago)
— Dmartin969 (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Beqwk
Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Video game characters/Header (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) — NegativeMP1
Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Video game characters/Members (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) — NegativeMP1
Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Video game characters/Tabs (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) — NegativeMP1
July 30
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Sahaib
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— 109.79.34.61 (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Dungeonation
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— Beqwk
— SLiberman (newly tagged – originally created 14 years ago)
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Hackshaven (newly tagged – originally created 16 years ago)
— Beqwk (was previously a redirect)
— Accless (newly tagged – originally created 13 years ago)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Video game characters/Recent changes (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) — NegativeMP1
July 31
— Yoblyblob (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— MallardTV (was previously a redirect)
— Johnson524
— Icem4k (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— QuickAnsOnly (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
— Ahri Boy (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Shakib69SH (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Mustang208 (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
August 1
— Charcoal feather (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Cogsan (was previously a redirect)
August 2
— Dr. Precursor (newly tagged – originally created 2 months ago)
August 3
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
August 4
- None
- That is a lot of stubs. CaptainGalaxy 17:19, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Separate articles for Download (video game), Download 2 and Download (OVA) seem a bit overkill. Especially when that OVA has questionable notability. --Mika1h (talk) 18:39, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yes, it looks like a specific new user is responsible for like half the creations with a bunch of short/sloppy stubs... Sergecross73 msg me 19:50, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Sergecross73:I concur. That is my main gripe with the user Beqwk making these video game articles without much effort into them. However, in the case of Download and its sequel, i have a list of reviews about both titles on a notebook that i could add to properly establish their notability. In the case of the Download OVA, that could be easily merged into the article of the first Download (just like how it's laid out in the Sands of Destruction article for example). Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:28, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Corporate use of Second Life could probably be merged back into Second Life. (Oinkers42) (talk) 20:12, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I support a merge. Shooterwalker (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Beqwk has been creating many stubs and not using the talk page to add the WikiProject so there may be many more articles they started that are not listed here. 2600:1008:B10B:7A6B:4909:57DF:528E:179B (talk) 20:55, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- What should we do about all of these stubs? QuicoleJR (talk) 22:50, 8 August 2024 (UTC)
- I’m not sure, but it looks like other users have helpfully added the template to all of their articles except one so I got that one. 2600:1008:B10B:7A6B:4909:57DF:528E:179B (talk) 15:16, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- The usual - WP:BLAR, open up merge or AFD discussions, etc. Sergecross73 msg me 15:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)
- BTW, I brought up an obscure source they used a lot at WT:VG/S since it had never been discussed before. QuicoleJR (talk) 00:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
- I don't want to discourage the characters of Ace Attorney articles from above, because they at least address both development and reception, but when the heaviest section in those articles are the Apoearences section, there's a problem. Character articles aren't replacements for avoiding long plot summaries, and while we want their key character role outlined, even if across multiple games, it should still be looking at big picture elements and not at some of the detail I see in those... Unless that us sourced to third party works. Masem (t) 21:36, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I whittled down Dahlia's. How does it look? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's better.. Did you do that to Franziska too, as I thought that was longer when I last looked? Masem (t) 23:00, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I moved onto that after I finished up with Dahlia. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 23:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- Both are far better. We don't need to hit every character's story points, just any major beats central to their character (eg Edgeworth in the fourth case of the first game would be a proper major beat but not necessarily all his random appearances later) — Masem (t) 00:13, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- Yeah, I moved onto that after I finished up with Dahlia. - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 23:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's better.. Did you do that to Franziska too, as I thought that was longer when I last looked? Masem (t) 23:00, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
- I whittled down Dahlia's. How does it look? - Cukie Gherkin (talk) 22:33, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
Help with PR
I currently have a peer review open for Undertale, and would like some detailed feedback, as I am planning to bring it to FAC. Any comments are appreciated. — lunaeclipse ⚧ (talk) 15:58, 6 August 2024 (UTC)
- I have closed the peer review. — lunaeclipse ⚧ (talk) 13:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC)
New Articles (August 5 to August 12)
A listing of all articles newly added to the Video Games Wikiproject (regardless of creation date). Generated by v3.20 of the RecentVGArticles script and posted by PresN. Bug reports and feature requests are appreciated. --PresN 02:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Articles deleted/removed: List of video games based on Hasbro properties, Caine (video game character), Joshua Rubin, Matt Firor, Nintendo Network Service Database, Travis Scott (The Sims character)
- Drafts deleted/removed: Draft:Blake Grossman (BL8KE G), Draft:Boris Salchow, Draft:Demonsomnia, Draft:Geiru Toneido, Draft:Jason "Thor" Hall, Draft:Roblox BedWars, Draft:The Super Mario 64 A Button Challenge, Draft:Thomas & Friends: Hero of the Rails (video game), Draft:Touhou Artificial Dream in Arcadia, Draft:WePlay (Mobile Game)
- Articles redirected: Dracthyr, Iikka Keränen, Miika Huttunen
- Categories deleted/removed: Art of Fighting characters, Ditherpunk video games, Habbo, Kingdom Hearts characters, Warcraft III, Worms (series) games
- New categories: Advance Communication Company games — Waxworker, Defunct games — Piotrus (newly tagged - originally created 4 years ago), Factory simulation games — CanonNi, Free Spirit Software games — Waxworker, Girls und Panzer — Dimadick, Maelstrom Games games — Waxworker, MidBoss games — Waxworker, Nintendo Entertainment System homebrew games — QuantumFoam66, Top-down shooters — QuantumFoam66, Video games about elephants — QuantumFoam66 (newly tagged - originally created 25 days ago), Video games developed in Kazakhstan — Phediuk (newly tagged - originally created 1 month ago), WJS Design games — Waxworker
- New templates: {{Download (video game)}} — Beqwk, {{EWCNavbox}} — IntMaMis (newly tagged - originally created 26 days ago), {{Fortnite}} — SlySabre, {{Panic Inc.}} — Dmartin969, {{Your Shape video games}} — MKsLifeInANutshell
August 12
— Giant xquid (previously a draft)
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— Captain Galaxy (was previously a redirect)
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— Hse643 (was previously a redirect)
— Cukie Gherkin (was previously a redirect)
— Beqwk (was previously a redirect)
— 199.7.159.60 (was previously a redirect)
— Ryan York (was previously a redirect)
— GamesAnywhere (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— Beqwk
— OverwatchFan101 (newly tagged – originally created 4 years ago)
— Amckern (newly tagged – originally created 19 years ago)
— Beqwk
— Ngat4146 (newly tagged – originally created 15 years ago)
— Mercesletifer (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Ryan York
— Beqwk
— NegativeMP1 (previously a userpage: undrafted by original creator)
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— Abryn (newly tagged – originally created 5 years ago)
— WikiEditPS
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— BOZ
— Beqwk
— TheHumanIntersect (previously a draft: accepted AfC submission)
— Shakib69SH (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Angeldeb82 (was previously a redirect)
— Gluonz (was previously a redirect)
— Beqwk (was previously a redirect)
— MrKaraRocks
— Angeldeb82 (was previously a redirect – un-redirected 8 months ago)
— Ryan York
— Beqwk
— Beqwk
— SlightAngle (previously a draft: undrafted by original creator)
— Maxeto0910 (newly tagged – originally created 5 years ago)
— Gisrhgver
— Cwootten13 (newly tagged – originally created 1 month ago)
— Brandon Downes (previously a draft – moved out 4 years ago: undrafted by original creator)
— Accless (newly tagged – originally created 13 years ago)
— Unnamelessness
— Taeluta (newly tagged – originally created 3 years ago)
An issue with the Wikimedia servers meant that the 1.0 bot couldn't get any data all week... so now we get the whole week dumped into one day. It got a little confused on page moves (as they're recorded as happening at the same time), so hopefully everything is sorted out. --PresN 02:24, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Before anyone complains again, know that I've given Beqwk a final warning for churning out these sloppy stubs. That said, don't let that deter you from taking action on the articles if anyone sees it fit. Sergecross73 msg me 03:04, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Sergecross73:Hey man, i'm just trying to rescue said stubs by finding reviews to establish their overall notability X'D Roberth Martinez (talk) 03:29, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- That's totally fine, go for it. Thank you for helping. Sergecross73 msg me 10:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- That console article (which is about consoles to enter various commands within a game engine) seems to lack notability, though the idea of such consoles should be documented somewhere, I'm not sure. --Masem (t) 04:04, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- Stubs might be ugly, but they are not against policy, and the rate of creation is not "large scale" as defined by WP:MASSCREATE. The articles are fully sourced, the patrol log shows that they are passing NPP, and I can't identify any that was nominated for deletion, BLAR'd, or merged. A threat to sanction them seems inappropriate at this point. Charcoal feather (talk) 11:01, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm well aware stubs aren't against policy. But thats not solely the problem, nor did I say they were. The problem is that they're sloppy stubs. Some aren't even written in paragraph form, but more as a series of bullet points one would jot down in efforts of preparing to write an article. And many aren't exactly home runs with notability when under scrutiny. Lots of passing mentions and iffy sources. Repeatedly creating problematic content despite warnings is a form of disruptive editing. Please also note that I issued it because they've completely ignored muktiple requests to slow down/be more careful, and that when they actually use WP:AFC, they're not getting published. Sergecross73 msg me 12:26, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
- I was thinking that some of the stubs could be merged/redirected to a suitable article, or even PRODed/AFDed. Stubs are alright, but only if they are notable and have a low chance of being merged/redirected/PROD/AFD. I don't plan to do any of that to Beqwk's articles as I am not quite experienced. For example, Palia may have been a stub at first, but that's just because the game is notable. My understanding is that if the article has over 1500 words (the criteria for DYK), then it's no longer a stub, but that varies. JuniperChill (talk) 12:41, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra Merge Discussion
A merge discussion for the pages Pokémon Sword and Shield: The Isle of Armor and Pokémon Sword and Shield: The Crown Tundra is currently open at this page. I'd greatly appreciate further responses in order to determine a wider consensus on this subject. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 03:12, 13 August 2024 (UTC)
Dispute in Grand Theft Auto: The Trilogy – The Definitive Edition on whether to be more specific or vague
I have entered an editing dispute with @IceWelder: over whether or not to specify which character had the Confederate flag removed from their in-game attire (a removal questioned by a writer in their criticism, which is described in the reception section). I am bringing it here without turning it into an edit war. While I haven’t found anything in the MOS about this, I believe that specifying the character as Phil Cassidy from GTA Vice City is more specific, concise, and not vague compared to “a character”, and is reasonable to include. (For the record, no other character in GTA 3, VC, or San Andreas has the flag on their clothes.) It gives the specific example for people to look up on their own accord without being excessive detail. IW believes that because the character isn’t mentioned elsewhere in the Wikipedia article, it’s completely irrelevant and specific to include, despite “a character” being too vague and unspecific. I think such vagueness should be avoided, and it’s not unreasonable to specify. What does the WikiProject think here? DrewieStewie (talk) 17:34, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- We generally aim to write Wikipedia be understandable in a stand-alone context. As in, general audiences - anyone who can read, should be able to understand an article either through the articles text itself, or WP:WIKILINKs to other Wikipedia articles. It's for anyone to read and understand, not just GTA fans or gamers.
- In that respect, if the character isn't mentioned in any other point in the article, then it doesn't make any sense to name drop him here, as the reader has no knowledge of who the character is. A stand-alone name with no context or info does not help the reader. IceWelder has the right idea. Sergecross73 msg me 19:04, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is context though: the character had previously been wearing the flag in a specific game of the trilogy, but is no longer in the remaster. The character is prominently mentioned in the article for the prequel Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (but not the Vice City article since the Wikipedia plot doesn’t go into detail on the Asset missions/heist storyline), so perhaps wikilinking the character could go to the Vice City Stories plot to satisfy that need. Even if the subplot/Phil were included in the original VC article, the plots of the games aren’t in the Trilogy article because it’s redundant to list them when the original source materials have their own articles to list it, so that reception section is one of the few, if any, places to mention the characters when relevant (which Phil is here). I think avoiding specific examples without clarification of what the critic is referring to is “dumbing it down” so to speak, is insulting to the readers intellect, and should be avoided at all costs. DrewieStewie (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- But tacking on the name "Phil" doesn't add anything to that message. Nothing is lost by its removal because the reader doesn't even know who Phil to begin with.
- Think of it this way. If Cloud Strife is out there rocking a confederate flag, you'd mention him by name, because he's mentioned up and down the Final Fantasy 7 article. But there's no reason to name drop Chelsea for doing the same thing, since general audiences don't know she's the little girl who's found in the third building on the left in Junon with 2 lines of dialogue, nor is Wikipedia likely to discuss her otherwise in the article. Sergecross73 msg me 20:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Unalike comparison, Phil is a major character in Vice City/VCS (voiced by Gary Busey, might I add)that reoccurs in a minor role in III/Liberty city stories. Not Cloud or Tommy Vercetti level, but definitely not that insignificant to the game’s story. I see it as a lost opportunity to learn if a casual reader doesn’t know. For instance, searching on Google for “Phil Cassidy” instead of “character with confederate flag in GTA” (remember, the status quo doesn’t specify which game in the trilogy). DrewieStewie (talk) 20:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- This response misses the point entirely, which is that the character is not mentioned anywhere in the article, so the reader has no understanding in the who, or importance of, what it means to be "Phil" in the first place. If you're requiring the reader to "Google something", you're not writing Wikipedia articles correctly. Sergecross73 msg me 21:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Isn’t “a character” worse in that regard, given that wikilinking to Vice City Stories describes Phil Cassidy? DrewieStewie (talk) 21:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I follow, but I also dont object to just trimming it back to "instances of confederate flags were removed from the game" either. Sergecross73 msg me 21:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps. Or, maybe even similar to how they have a picture of Denise Robinson’s character model in both the original/the remaster to highlight criticisms of poorer quality, we could do the same with Phil for the flag? If it qualifies fair use, that is. DrewieStewie (talk) 22:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- It feels like it's going to be hard to justify an image on such a minor, trivial aspect of the game. I don't see that sticking either... Sergecross73 msg me 12:46, 15 August 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps. Or, maybe even similar to how they have a picture of Denise Robinson’s character model in both the original/the remaster to highlight criticisms of poorer quality, we could do the same with Phil for the flag? If it qualifies fair use, that is. DrewieStewie (talk) 22:46, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure I follow, but I also dont object to just trimming it back to "instances of confederate flags were removed from the game" either. Sergecross73 msg me 21:54, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Isn’t “a character” worse in that regard, given that wikilinking to Vice City Stories describes Phil Cassidy? DrewieStewie (talk) 21:40, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- This response misses the point entirely, which is that the character is not mentioned anywhere in the article, so the reader has no understanding in the who, or importance of, what it means to be "Phil" in the first place. If you're requiring the reader to "Google something", you're not writing Wikipedia articles correctly. Sergecross73 msg me 21:02, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Unalike comparison, Phil is a major character in Vice City/VCS (voiced by Gary Busey, might I add)that reoccurs in a minor role in III/Liberty city stories. Not Cloud or Tommy Vercetti level, but definitely not that insignificant to the game’s story. I see it as a lost opportunity to learn if a casual reader doesn’t know. For instance, searching on Google for “Phil Cassidy” instead of “character with confederate flag in GTA” (remember, the status quo doesn’t specify which game in the trilogy). DrewieStewie (talk) 20:53, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- There is context though: the character had previously been wearing the flag in a specific game of the trilogy, but is no longer in the remaster. The character is prominently mentioned in the article for the prequel Grand Theft Auto: Vice City Stories (but not the Vice City article since the Wikipedia plot doesn’t go into detail on the Asset missions/heist storyline), so perhaps wikilinking the character could go to the Vice City Stories plot to satisfy that need. Even if the subplot/Phil were included in the original VC article, the plots of the games aren’t in the Trilogy article because it’s redundant to list them when the original source materials have their own articles to list it, so that reception section is one of the few, if any, places to mention the characters when relevant (which Phil is here). I think avoiding specific examples without clarification of what the critic is referring to is “dumbing it down” so to speak, is insulting to the readers intellect, and should be avoided at all costs. DrewieStewie (talk) 20:06, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Would "a character named Phil Cassidy" work as a compromise? QuicoleJR (talk) 20:08, 14 August 2024 (UTC)
- Which game and depiction would need to be applied too, given that the article concerns a trilogy of three games, two of them which contain different depictions of the character fifteen storyline years apart. DrewieStewie (talk) 20:58, 14 August 2024 (UTC)