Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Megadeth/archive2

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose (talk) 01:44, 10 August 2014 (diff).

Megadeth

Nominator(s): Retrohead (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is my second nomination of this page for FA. I have addressed the prose issues from the previous candidature with the help of Curly Turkey and believe the article now meets the criteria. Please note if there is any unresolved point and I will happily fix the problem.--Retrohead (talk) 21:24, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Curly Turkey

  • Megadeth's second studio album was produced on a small budget from Combat Records. Not satisfied with these financial limitations, Megadeth soon left Combat and signed with Capitol Records. Capitol bought the rights to the upcoming album and hired producer Paul Lani to remix the earlier recordings. Released in late 1986, Peace Sells... but Who's Buying? was recorded on a budget of $25,000 and had clearer studio production and more sophisticated songwriting.: Is $25,000 the Combat or Capitol budget?
  • "On the road, things escalated from a small border skirmish into a full-on raging war", Mustaine later recalled, "I think a lot of us were inconsistent [on the 1988 tour] because of the guy we were waiting for after the show.": can you show this quote with the original punctuation?
  • Worth mentioning who Megdeth lost the 1993 Grammy to? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:44, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • and spanned eleven months, becoming Megadeth's most extensive tour to date.: but diidn't the 1987 tour last 72 weeks?
  • press response to the album was mixed. The Los Angeles Times noted the album for carrying diverse compositions, and described it as a "rousing balance" between the older material and experimental tunes.: We're told it got mixed reviews, and then are given a single quote that doesn't reflect that at all. If the quote is meant to introduce the idea of the diversity of the compositions, I'd reword it so it doesn't seem as if you're about to give a sample of the mixed reviews.
  • Mustaine fired manager Bud Prager and self-produced the album.: meaning it was produced by Mustaine or Megadeth?
  • Menza was dismissed shortly after rehearsing began. Mustaine stated that he was insufficiently prepared and "it just didn't work out". Unable to prepare for the physical demands of a full US tour, Menza was sent home a few days before the start of the tour in support of Megadeth's upcoming album: was he dismaissed twice? Was the rehearsal Menza was fired for rehearsal for the tour or the recording? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:22, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In May 2006, Megadeth announced that its eleventh studio album, United Abominations, was near completion. Although its release was originally scheduled for October 2006, Mustaine later revealed that the band was "putting the finishing touches on it", and postponed the release to May of the following year.: Would you object if I cut this down to Although scheduled for October 2006, Megadeth's eleventh album, United Abominations, was released May of the following year. or even just Megadeth's eleventh album, United Abominations, was released May 2007.? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 01:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • In an interview in for Crypt Magazine, drummer Shawn Drover stated plans for a thirteenth Megadeth album.: This sounds trivial to me. Can we drop it? Actually, I think the whole paragraph could be condensed quite a bit by dropping these kinds of details and jumping right into th ealbum's recording and release. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 04:56, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Megadeth left Roadrunner Records for Mustaine's label, Tradecraft,: What's the story with this label? Was it freshly founded? If not, how come Megadeth wasn't on it before? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:27, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • At the final show, Jason Newsted joined Megadeth onstage to perform "Phantom Lord", a song Mustaine had written during his stint with Metallica.: Wouldn't it be appropriate to mention Newsted's relation to Metallica? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • troubles arose concerning the band playing sideshows with Newsted: meaning they violated their contract by playing these shows, or what kind of troubles? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:32, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • There was a mix of "number <digit>" and "number <word>" throughout. I made them all "number <word>", but feel free to go the other way. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

———Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 00:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  • The $25,000 budget would be from Combat Records. And about the tours being italicized or not, I think they shouldn't be. I'll see the liner notes for the quote. Regarding the Grammy issue, I don't think it's worth mentioning that Nine Inch Nails took the award that year. About the 2001 album, it was produced solely by Mustaine (I think that is stated pretty clear above). Cheers.--Retrohead (talk) 07:36, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't see it in the MoS, but it came up a few times on the MoS talk page, and each time it was recommended not to italicize. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 07:44, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
    • "self-produced": yes, grammatically that's what is said, but it's still ambiguous as the last time an album was "self produced" (Killing is my Business) it was done by the band. It leaves the reader wondering if what's being said is what's really what was meant. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:08, 3 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Indeed, the information about Thirteen is trivial. As for United Abominations, it might stay since we're talking about an album delay, something that has not happened with any of the previous albums. But I'll leave it up to you to decide whether you'll keep it or not. But if omitting the sentence, please post it to the album article in order not to lose the information. By the way, thanks for the awesome job you're doing.--Retrohead (talk) 09:31, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okay, I'm done with copyediting. If you can get through the last couple of little things above, I'll be ready to support. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:51, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Megadeth didn't play the Soundvawe festival because the concerts with Newsted weren't originally scheduled, or in other words, the tour promoter violated the initial contract. As for Menza, he was fired once in 2004, during rehearsal, with the explanation that he wasn't prepared. It's kinda odd that the tour started before the album was released, but the band was rehearsing for the tour, not that they were doing recording sessions.--Retrohead (talk) 17:58, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Regarding Ellefson's departure, Mustaine accused Ellefson of slandering him and lying about him to the press that the arm injury was fake.: the source for this is Dave Mustaine, and I'm not quite sure this really summarizes what he said, either. Anyways, I've removed it. Can you find a better source for the Ellefson situation? Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 05:25, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In the book Mustaine: A Heavy Metal Memoir, Dave said the same thing. I've gone through Ellefson's biography as well, but there is no mentioning of this incident. Honestly, you can't expect Ellefson to admit this is his own book. But since Blabbermouth.net is a third-party source, I think we can go with that one.--Retrohead (talk) 10:47, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The entire article is a quotation of Mustaine. Mustaine is not a third-party source—he's a primary source, and we must avoid primary sources when the details are (potentially damaging) details about living persons (see WP:BLP). Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 10:51, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Alright, removed the entire sentence according to the Wiki policy. Regarding the cancelled shows with Newsted, I'm not sure even the journalist himself knows what the real reason was. I saw that you re-worded it, so I think we can cross that too. As for the quote from the liner notes of So Far, So Good... So What!, it is cited properly, except for the big brackets, which were added so the reader can know to which event Mustaine is referring to.--Retrohead (talk) 17:02, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Added the logo with a brief description. Thanks for all of the suggestions and support.--Retrohead (talk) 06:34, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from WikiRedactor

  • Some external links that need to be corrected.
  • I would like to do a check for disambiguation links, but it seems like that tool is down, so I will come back for those later on.
  • In the infobox, "United States" can be abbreviated "U.S."
  • Instead of formatting the titles like "Early days (1983–84)", I would suggest renaming them like "1983–84: Early days", which seems to be a standard practice.
  • I think that the inline music samples in the body of the article can be moved into the "Influences and style" section, which I believe will make them more accessible than they currently are.
  • The "Controversy" section should probably be renamed "Controversies" because there are numerous incidents that they were involved in.
  • The "Studio albums" subheading under "Discography" can be removed because discography sections are only supposed to list studio albums anyway.
  • Also in the "Discography" section, perhaps since there are several studio albums they could be split into two columns?
  • The referral to List of awards and nominations received by Megadeth alone will suffice in the "Awards" section, since it is a well-maintained featured list.

WikiRedactor (talk) 15:30, 4 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hi WikiRedactor. Thanks for the comments, I'll start addressing them as soon as I'm finished with Curly Turkey's ones. Just to note that the list with awards was incorporated because the GA reviewer suggested so, and removing it could drag some oppose from another reviewer. I intended splitting the albums in two columns, but Curly Turkey suggested such a change isn't semantic, so I'll leave that too. The rest of the notes are under way.--Retrohead (talk) 17:10, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The way it was handled before was unsemantic, but there are other ways to handle it: for example. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 20:04, 5 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiRedactor, I've done the majority of the notes. I've made the samples more visible and accessible now, but kept them in the history section since their use is about those events. Also kept the list with the awards, as explained above. Thanks for the constructive input.--Retrohead (talk) 15:21, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Retrohead: I'm pleased with the corrections made, and am happy to give my support to the nomination. Good work! WikiRedactor (talk) 15:57, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from WonderBoy1998

  • "Megadeth is a thrash metal band from Los Angeles, California, formed in 1983 by guitarist Dave Mustaine and bassist David Ellefson, shortly after Mustaine's dismissal from Metallica"- I am not sure the last comma is needed.
  • " A pioneer of the American thrash metal scene, the band is credited as one of the genre's "big four" along with Anthrax, Metallica, and Slayer, who were responsible for thrash metal's development and popularization" - Claims like such should include citations since it is challengeable (See WP:LEADCITE).
  • "prominent" or "common"?
  • " MTV has refused to play two of the band's videos that the network considered to condone suicide."- The lead should generally include general stuff about the band. This seems too specific. The sentence preceding this can cover this by becoming " The group has experienced controversy over its musical approach and lyrics, including canceled concerts and bans of albums and music videos".
  • "Rauch" changes to "Rausch" in the first section.
  • "After considering a few recording labels, Mustaine signed with Combat Records, a New York-based independent label that offered him the highest budget for recording an album and starting a promotional tour"- Seems like Mustaine joined the label, not the entire band.
  • If Killing Is My Business... and Business Is Good! is referred as such throughout the article, then why even have one instance as Killing Is My Business...?
  • Side comment- Oh god drugs drugs drugs everywhere
  • I don't know if it is intentional or not but this article seems very Mustaine-centric.
  • More comments later. The prose is good in general. I suggest making sure that everything mentioned is supported by the sources and that nothing is directly taken from the sources (without being put in quotations). --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 18:17, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for taking a close look at the prose, there were some spelling and copyediting mistakes that I accidentally overlooked. About the "big four" cite, trust me, there are zillion references on Google Books that confirm that moniker, and that is probably the least challenging aspect of the lead. Indeed, the article sounds Mustaine-centric because Mustaine was actually the band (he is even jokingly nicknamed as "MegaDave"). All other notes, except for the comma in the opening sentence, were addressed.--Retrohead (talk) 21:42, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That comma could easily be dropped without affecting the meaning, but it's up to you. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 23:10, 6 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed that comma is not needed at all. As for the challengeable part, the "probably the least challenging aspect of the lead" is coming from you, who I assume to be a fan of the band. A person like me, who does not know much about the band (other than the fact that they share a song's title with Shakira), may not find this justifiable without supporting sources. If necessary, include the zillion references if that works to make this article stronger. --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 11:45, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
If you're honestly challenging the "big four" thing, then perhaps a cite is warranted, but seriously, no more than a few seconds googling would dispel any doubts. The "big four" designation goes back at least as far as the early 90s, when I first heard it. It's a firmly-rooted meme, and cited more than once in the body. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 13:29, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Fine then. Metal is not big in this part of the world, so maybe that's why I am not aware. Also, the MTV point has not been addressed. And if the Mustaine-centric tone can be explained through the "MegaDave" thing, a suggestion would be to include that term somewhere in the article. --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 13:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Minor correction to Curly Turkey's note, the "big four" tag has been used since 1986/87, when all of those bands released the "genre-defining" albums. I thought about dropping the MTV sentence, but do we have an alternative to replace that? The lead will become too brief in that case. As for the article being Mustaine-centric, it is because the sources have focused on him as the band's leading figure. If you check the members timeline, you'll see that him and Ellefson were the only consistent members, in addition to Mustaine writing and composing 98% of the group's songs.--Retrohead (talk) 20:52, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Removing a sentence will certainly not make the lead "brief." I will not focus on that anymore now and just lay out a few more points.
  • I am randomly reading sections for prose check. There is one in the Controversies section. "The government to pointed the band's mascot Vic Rattlehead..." - You know what's wrong here.
  • I am randomly picking out a sentence and checking whether it is supported by the source. This will be formally done by another editor later I believe. But nevermind- "The band spent nearly four months in the studio with Norman, writing and recording what became Megadeth's most commercially successful effort, Countdown to Extinction" - The Chicago Tribune source does not really confirm this. The four months part is absent, and the "commercially" successful part, while true since it's got their highest certifications, is only implied by the source: it calls the disc "commercial," which is not the equivalent of "commercially successful."
The Google definition of "commercial" states "making or intended to make a profit". Nonetheless, that can easily be confirmed, since it's the only multi-platinum Megadeth album (2× Platinum according to RIAA). The intro being short was specifically pointed in the GA review, and having two videos banned by MTV is not something you commonly see at other artists. Referring to Vic Rattlehead, can you be more specific on what is incorrect with the sentence?--Retrohead (talk) 09:42, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That google definition is exactly what I meant. As for the double platinum cert: in addition to the book, cite the certifying body database too i.e RIAA (Wikipedia:Record_charts#Certifications states "Certifications should be sourced directly to certifying agencies, most of which provide a searchable database."). "The government to pointed the band's mascot Vic Rattlehead as inappropriate and told the members that they would be arrested if they performed." - Either that is a "too" or "pointed to". The choice of words "pointed" and "told" isn't all that great too. --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 10:13, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The sentence about the Vic was corrected. As for Countdown being the band's most commercially successful album, even Nielsen Soundscan reported 2,322,000 copies sold in the US, and compared to Youthanasia's 997,000 (their second best) is undoubtedly the group's best seller. It is clearly written in the liner notes that the recording started on January 6 and ended on April 28, 1992→which is nearly four months.--Retrohead (talk) 12:51, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I am not doubting that it hasn't sold that much. What I mean to say is that "Released in July 1992, Countdown to Extinction entered the Billboard 200 chart at number two, and earned double-platinum status in the United States" should also cite this. I also suggest using better words than "pointed" and "told" in that Vic sentence. And you need to include all that nielsen stuff and liner notes in this sentence "The band spent nearly four months in the studio with Norman, writing and recording what became Megadeth's most commercially successful effort, Countdown to Extinction" instead of explaining it all to me. My comments stop here.--WonderBoy1998 (talk) 14:46, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The liner notes are already cited (ref 63) and the certification number is sourced with Joyner's book. Appreciate your input so far.--Retrohead (talk) 17:47, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The certification number may be covered in the book, fine. But as per the guideline suggestion of Wikipedia:Record_charts#Certifications ("Certifications should be sourced directly to certifying agencies, most of which provide a searchable database"), I highly recommend adding a reference pointing to the RIAA database. I will give my support once this change is made. --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 19:16, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Agree. The cite was added.--Retrohead (talk) 19:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support --WonderBoy1998 (talk) 20:07, 8 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Nikkimaria

Image review
  • Several captions could use editing for grammar
  • File:Megadeth_in_Porto_Alegre.jpg: I think the mascot's image is prominent enough in this image that we would need to consider its copyright status
  • Per WP:SAMPLE, non-free samples should not exceed the shorter of 30 seconds or 10% of the original track. "Since "Peace Sells" is only 4 minutes long, 27 seconds is too long a sample. The FUR for that excerpt is also quite weak.
  • File:MegadethLogoDileo.png: can we add in the actual creator and date of creation for the logo?
  • File:Megadeth_Symphony_of_Destruction.ogg: please fill in the "n.a.". Nikkimaria (talk) 11:28, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria, according to the Template:Information, the author and the source fields in File:MegadethLogoDileo.png are already filled. Did you mean to incorporate the actual author (Dave Mustaine) and the year the logo was actually created (1986)? As for the first note, can you be a little more precise and mention which of the image captions you find unsuitable?--Retrohead (talk) 20:31, 10 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK, nevermind, the notes were addressed, except for shortening the "Peace Sells" audio, which Dawnseeker2000 should handle it soon. The rationales were properly filled, and the prose in the image and audio descriptions was corrected too.--Retrohead (talk) 08:40, 12 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Just uploaded a new, shortened version of the sample. Hope this is works out for the article. I chose to take a little extra off (six seconds altogether) so the end would not be mid-sentence. Cheers, Dawnseeker2000 21:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from L1A1 FAL

Source review

Note: Firstly, I feel that I should make clear that I have had significant involvement with this article, and the topic at large. If that is deemed to constitute a conflict of interest, please feel free to dismiss my input. I was asked to do a source check. I am a novice at FA discussions, so please bear with me.

  • The first thing I wanted to bring up, what's the status of Blabbermouth, in regards to it being an RS or not? I seem to remember some debate as to whether it was or not. Personally, I consider it so, and use it as a reference myself, but for the sake of objectiveness, I think I should being this up.
  • Another thing, when an article is written by an unnamed staff member, the author format should be standardized, there's a few variants present. Should either be standardized as "Staff writer" or "[Name of publication] staff", in my opinion.
  • Citation 5 is from a fansite, Rockmetal.art.pl. It seems to be an archived thing from Hit Parader. I think this is legit, and since it is cited as originally being from Hit Parader I would let it stay, if there is not any other source available.
  • Citation 31: is similar to citation 5. from Rockmetal.art.pl, seems to be an archive of a legitimate article
  • Citation 32: concerns me. Is Metal Rules a legitimate source? I'm leaning towards no, personally. Input?
  • Citation 38: same as #5 and 31; usage seems legitimate
  • Citation 46: is "voicesfromthedarkside.de" legit in the context it's being used in?
  • Citation 65: Goldmine magazine... I can't say I am familiar with this publication. I am assuming it is legit, but never hurts to ask.
  • Citation 86: same as #5, 31, 38; usage seems legitimate though
  • Citations 87 & 88: Both are Youtube videos citing appearances on Letterman. Does the copyright status of the videos matter, or are they ok as is?
  • Citation 94: same as #5, 31, 38, 86; usage seems legitimate though
  • Citation 102: Metal Sludge. I don't like this source, it seems a bit lacking on the quality scale. It supports the thing about Menza finding a tumor in his knee. That seems like a fact that should be verifiable in a better source, and I believe a better source should be used, if possible. If there is a consensus that the source is okay, or no other source can be found, I'll drop my objection.
  • Citation 105: same as #5, 31, 38, 86, 94; I think it's legit
  • Citation 108: NewHampshire.com. I am assuming this is legit, but again, doesn't hurt to ask a second opinion
  • Citation 111: Youtube. Citing a live performance, just concerned if the citation is done right.
  • Citation 116: Metal Sludge; see # 102 for my concerns. It cites something about a tour with Motley Crue and Anthrax, and the Northern Ireland concert incident (which should be documented well enough to cite from a better source)
  • Citation 132: same as #5, 31, 38, et. al. I think it's legit
  • Citation 140: Revolver, cited via the band's website. Is there a better way to do this one?
  • Citation 147: Blogcritics. This absolutely needs to be removed and replaced. It cites the release date of one of the Gigantour concert DVDs. I am sure this information can be obtained from Loudwire, Blabbermouth, Bravewords.com or another legit news cite.
  • Citation 153: I think a better source than About.com can be found. Ultimately, my concern hinges on whether this Chad Bowar person is a reputable source.
  • Citation 170: same issue as #153
  • Citation 176: I want to point out that I do not have a problem with this source (Alex Jones/Infowars.com) because of the context and subject of the citation. Brought this up in case anyone else questions it.
  • Citation 231: same issue as #65
  • Citation 239: this source is a blog (seymourduncan.com), but it's an interview. a second opinion would be welcome here.

Everything else looks okay to me, though if someone else wants to double check, go ahead. Additionally, the bibliography sources look okay, too.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 00:17, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The second note is done, went with the latter variant. As for Blabbermouth.net, I think it can stay since it is not self-published and has an editorial oversight. Metal Sludge is a website dedicated to heavy metal, and has almost identical publishing policy as Metal Rules. The references are actually interviews with Menza and Mustaine for the website, but if anyone else objects, I'll try to find a more suitable solution.--Retrohead (talk) 17:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough. Blabbermouth wasn't really a concern for me, I just remembered hearing some issue about it a while back. As for the rest, it works for me, if nobody has any further objections. I might check minor style things in the cites, like date format, etc. just to make sure that's all consistent. Did you check to see if there are any double citations that could be merged? I wouldn't think there would be many, if any, but you never know.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 02:49, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Retrohead asked me to weigh in on some of these sources. My thoughts (only on sources I feel confident in commenting on, if I don't mention a source then I'm not sure):
  • I use Blabbermouth as a reliable source as well, and it is supported by WP:ALBUM/SOURCES (I know this isn't an album article, but if it's acceptable there, I would assume it's acceptable in related articles), as long as it isn't used to support contentious BLP issues.
  • According to the Metal Rules article, they have been cited by the New York Times, and BW&BK. They also appear to have a professional staff. So long as what it's citing isn't too contentious, I'd support using that source.
Ok, I'll drop my objection to that source--L1A1 FAL (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Youtube – It seems to me that if the article uses Youtube to directly support something, such as the band appearing on Letterman and what songs they played, then there should be some sort of news piece out there that talks about them appearing. Basically, it seems like original research to just directly cite a video of their appearances instead of reporting what reliable secondary sources say about their appearances. If a better source than Youtube can be found, I would suggest using it instead.
L1A1 FAL, MrMoustacheMM, all I managed to find are these two references: MSN Entertainment, confirming Megadeth were featured on Letterman in episode 330 (November 18, 1994) and Menza's webiste, stating which songs they played on the show. Are they useful?--Retrohead (talk) 23:31, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be OK with those. The first source confirms the appearance date, and the second one confirms the song titles. I think Menza's website would qualify as a RS under WP:PRIMARY. L1A1 FAL, your thoughts? MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:13, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Revolver – It would be much better to have the original magazine issue cited instead of Megadeth's website quoting Revolver.
Couldn't find the original Revolver review, but found a reference by The Philippine Star which quotes Revolver.--Retrohead (talk) 20:15, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Chad Bowar (About.com) – Chad Bowar writes for Loudwire (loudwire.com). Loudwire isn't listed at WP:ALBUM/SOURCES, and all I could find at WP:RSN was an unanswered question. If Loudwire is considered reliable, then I would use his About.com writing too. If not, then I wouldn't. That's up to a larger discussion than just me though. See also this discussion thread.
My cautiousness was more a case of the source than the individual. For all I know, anyone could get on about.com and claim to be an expert reviewer or whatever. But if Bowar's reputation is good, then that's fine by me.--L1A1 FAL (talk) 00:04, 16 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • seymourduncan.com – I generally consider interviews to be reliable, even if the site normally wouldn't be considered as such, so long as there is no reason to suspect the interview has been altered (or made up). Not sure though how stringent the requirements for Featured Articles are in this type of situation. That being said, if a more reliable source reports on this interview (Blabbermouth is often a good spot for this, depending on how old the interview is), I'd use that source instead. MrMoustacheMM (talk) 17:47, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Goldmine is a print magazine that was started in the 70s. Decade-spanning magazines that are physically printed are just about always going to have the editorial oversight and policy required to be considered an RS, so I approve. Sergecross73 msg me 10:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Newhampshire.com – While I wouldn't use it to source a controversial musical stance or to define the band's genre or anything, because I don't believe they are especially an authority on music. But I would think they would be fine for sourcing something like a direct quote from a band member, as it is used here. Sergecross73 msg me 13:42, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Voices From The Dark Side – I'm not 100% sure on this one. Although the interview is authorized by Steven Willems, the website doesn't seem like a high quality source. The bad thing is that an interview done by a more reputable journal is hard (or almost impossible) to find. Unfortunately, Dark Angel is an underground band that disbanded in 1992 because of poor album sales, and they obviously haven't got large media coverage.--Retrohead (talk) 19:00, 18 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from SNUGGUMS

  • "The group formed in 1983 by guitarist"..... was formed
  • "As of 2014 Megadeth has received"..... needs comma after "2014"
  • "Early days" section would be better titled something like "Formation"
  • "The resulting recording quality was raw and unpolished"..... somewhat confusing....
  • "In February 1987 Megadeth"..... needs comma after "1987"
  • "In January 2000 guitarist"..... needs comma after "2000"
  • "In January 2002 Mustaine"..... needs comma after "2002"
  • "On April 3 Mustaine"..... needs comma after "April 3"
  • "In May 2006 Megadeth"..... needs comma after "2006"
  • "In January 2008 Glen Drover"..... needs comma after "2008"
  • "Mustaine has made numerous inflammatory statements" → "Mustaine has often made inflammatory statements"
  • "For instance, in 1988 MTV deemed"..... needs comma after "1988", and "For instance" isn't really needed

More to come later on. SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 04:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Those commas are optional; it's up to Retrohead which style to go with, as long as it's consistent within the article. Curly Turkey ⚞¡gobble!⚟ 04:34, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, the commas were added to retain consistency. I'm sure they were there, but must have been omitted during the copyediting. The other notes are done too.--Retrohead (talk) 08:18, 15 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Resuming.....

  • "This triggered a riot and fighting"..... doesn't seem very encyclopedic, maybe "This started a fight" or "This started a feud"
Replaced it with "elicited", defined as "evoking or draw out a response from someone in reaction to..."
  • "Controversial and misinterpreted lyrics have caused complications for the band"..... led to conflicts would be better
There were only video bans because of the lyrics, not that the band clashed with someone because of the themes.
  • "Mustaine became a born-again Christian"..... if known, I'd include the specific division of Christianity he took up
Unfortunately no. I assume he took Catholicism, but we haven't got a source for that.
  • "were also influential on the group's guitar style"..... I think "also influenced the group's guitar style" would be better
It was originally written the way you propose, but Curly Turkey re-worded it this way, which I approve. I assume it was done because "influenced [something]" would be repetitive with Led Zeppelin being "also influential on the group's guitar style" or Megadeth being "a direct influence on death metal" and etc.
  • I'd remove "gloomy" from "Megadeth's gloomy lyrics" as it seems POV
Done. This question was previously raised, but forgot to remove it from the article's body (removed it only from the lead back then).
  • "The lyricism centers on nihilistic themes" → "The lyrics involve nihilistic themes"
I think "centers" suggests that nihilistic themes were dominant in the group's lyricism. "Involves", on the other hand, might be interpreted that nihilism was one of the many viewpoints the lyrics present.
  • In Artistry, include what critics have said about their music
Can you be a little more specific about which musical aspect you want additional research? There are the influences (1st para), Megadeth's songwriting routine (2nd para), musical style from the band's formation until the early 2000s and playing skills (3rd para), description by selected musicologists (4th para), and finally, the lyrical themes (5th para).
  • I'd give "Legacy" its own section rather than subsection.
I originally had that idea, but eventually abandoned it because the "Legacy" mentions Megadeth's influence on other bands and genres, which builds on the previous sub-heading.

You're quite close! SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 20:56, 22 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry I didn't manage to do the majority of the notes, but I think the notifications were adequately explained or tried to be addressed.--Retrohead (talk) 08:17, 23 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I'm almost ready to support..... SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 21:08, 25 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Snuggums, found something about the timing when lyrics and music are composed, and added it here. As for the sub-headings of the artistry section, it was divided like this, but CrowzRSA suggested to merge the "Influences and writing style" and "Musicianship and lyricism" into a larger section called "Influences and style", as it is now.--Retrohead (talk) 08:15, 27 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Now I support SNUGGUMS (talk · contribs) 20:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Dank

  • "The demo featured early versions of "Last Rites/Loved to Death", "The Skull Beneath the Skin", and "Mechanix", which appeared on the band's debut album.": How many of those appeared on the album?
  • "a more conscious appearance": I don't know what that means.
  • "electric shock therapy": Some readers will confuse this with electroshock therapy ... unless that's what it was, in which case I'm the reader who's confused.
  • "It was the first time that King had performed onstage with Megadeth as the latter's early shows in 1984." ?
  • "Mustaine's newly found label, Tradecraft": ? Maybe "new-found", but this isn't quite what "new-found" means. - Dank (push to talk)
  • "He said this had been spurred by the recent death of Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman, which gave him a sense of mortality. Mustaine elaborated: "You know, time is short. Nobody knows how long they're gonna live. You see what happened with Jeff Hanneman, so I wanna write as much as I can while I can.": The first sentence would be fine alone, or the rest of it would be fine without the first sentence.
  • Finished with Visual Editor. Almost done. - Dank (push to talk) 20:55, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Mustaine drunkenly and confusedly dedicated the song to "the cause" of "giving Ireland back to the Irish!"": This and following mostly overlaps the footnote.
  • "According to Nielsen SoundScan, Megadeth has sold 9.2 million copies of its albums in the United States between 1991 and 2014": This doesn't quite work ... the date on that is June 2014, so if it's intended to cover 2014, the number might already be wrong by now. - Dank (push to talk) 21:17, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose per standard disclaimer. These are my edits. Very readable, nice job. - Dank (push to talk) 21:17, 9 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • P.S. Forgot to say: As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. - Dank (push to talk) 20:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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