- Louis Jones, Jr. (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (article|XfD|restore)
I have discovered additional information which would bring notability to this case:
- 1. There was some notoriety as Jones claimed to have suffered from "Gulf War syndrome", meaning any of a variety of ailments soldiers in the Gulf War acquired. It lead to Newsweek publishing an op/ed: Miller, Mark. "Should Louis Jones Die?" (Archive). Newsweek. March 12, 2003.
- 2. At least two major U.S. politicians, citing the Gulf War issue, asked for Jones to be commuted and/or for the execution to be delayed. "Gulf War veteran is executed." - It's a 2003 article, but...
- "Jones had powerful people working to spare his life. Former presidential candidate Ross Perot, who has helped fund research into the illnesses plaguing many Gulf War veterans, tried to get Jones' sentence commuted to life without parole. Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, a Texas Republican, said last month the execution should be delayed while experts determine whether Jones suffers from Gulf War syndrome, a term used to describe a variety of illnesses suffered by Gulf War veterans."
- 3. Even though it's one event, it's a "one event" (or rather a series of inter-related events, from Tracie McBride's murder down to Louis Jones's execution) that received significant coverage in a span of years, from 1995-2003. Death penalty cases get significant coverage due to the drama they stir up, especially nowadays with the European and Latin American press giving attention (AFAIK such attention didn't exist until the late 90s).
- 4. p70 of Human Behavior in the Social Environment: A Macro, National, and International Perspective (2009) discussed the Louis Jones case in relation to Gulf War Syndrome, arguing that it could be an example of a genuine syndrome case, citing surveys of veterans. I don't know how "significant" this mention should be, though.
- 5. Since it was an execution by the federal government (with George W. Bush declining to provide a pardon), in Indiana, of a person convicted in Texas, with a victim from Minnesota, the case would get more domestic coverage compared to a typical state death penalty case, where the victim and perpetrator are from the same city and/or the coverage is largely restricted to a single state (although nationalregional newspapers do carry state death penalty cases too)
WhisperToMe (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not even sure this is eligible for DRV, but Jones was, and still is, a case of WP:ONEEVENT. Jones got normal news attention during the crime and trial and that was it. Since his execution, there has been no significant on-going coverage. A mere mention in a text book 7 years ago doesn't really change that. Nor does an op-ed piece at the time of the execution. Nor did a pair of politicians who had opinions during the event but forgot it like everyone else after that. Everything with Jones comes back to a single event. The first close was proper, so I don't really even know why we're at DRV 6.5 years later. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:40, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- If new info is uncovered that may provide evidence of notability, DRV is a place where that may be discussed. Anyway if we consider WP:Oneeevent that means a more appropriate title for this article could be "Murder of Tracie McBride" which I am okay with. AFAIK in regards to a federal execution with national news coverage there is no such thing as "normal" as "normal" crimes are state-operated executions. WhisperToMe (talk) 02:23, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Why would that be more appropriate? In the end, tragic as it may be, it's really not that much different than many murders that get some coverage right after they happen, a bit at the trail and then the execution. In other words, just normal news coverage. As NOTNEWS reminds us, "most newsworthy events do not qualify for inclusion." Why wouldn't federal executions be normal? What I'm seeing is that you appear to find it interesting and are just looking for a way around the lack of notability by trying to title it about the crime. And no, I really don't think this belongs in DRV. Niteshift36 (talk) 03:03, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- News coverage adds to notability unless it's WP:ROUTINE news coverage. If a murder gets only some coverage in a local paper and then the guy is given a life sentence, it's probably not notable. If a murder is covered by multiple national news outlets and/or those in Latin America in Europe, covering the various failed appeals up until the execution, it's more likely to be notable (also previous executions are generally less likely to be notable because Europeans weren't so anti-death penalty back then). WhisperToMe (talk) 03:19, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- This is routine. There's not much beyond it. And getting coverage in other countries isn't really that important any longer. By 2003, the internet was in full swing. We had a case recently where a girl allegedly had sex in a high school bathroom with 25 boys. Papers in the UK had it on their website before the local one got it on theirs. First you felt that Jones should be notable, then you decided it should be the murder of....., but you keep arguing about coverage of Jones himself. The sources you are showing say very little about the murder. I think you're taking two weak things (Jones and the murder) and trying to force them together to be 1 notable thing. Niteshift36 (talk) 17:26, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- "ROUTINE" is defined as "announcements, sports, and tabloid journalism" as well as "Planned coverage of pre-scheduled events, especially when those involved in the event are also promoting it" and "Wedding announcements, obituaries, sports scores, crime logs, and other items that tend to get an exemption from newsworthiness discussions" - The story about the 25 boys would be safely "tabloid journalism" while coverage of one of three federal executions to occur since Furman would not be routine. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:23, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. When I refer to a policy/guideline etc, I normally type them in caps (ie NOTNEWS or RS). When I just use a common word in the English language, I just type it like a word. When I said "routine", I was using the word, "routine", as in this is really just routine news coverage. Second, you're actually pretty wrong about the 25 boys story. It has lead to criminal charges, pending charges and a bigger discussion about human trafficking when more was discovered about the victim. So no, it isn't "safely" tabloid journalism. And no, every federal execution doesn't become extra notable. Regardless, the closure is going to be endorsed (which is the real purpose of DRV) and I can save the rest for any possible AfD discussion. Niteshift36 (talk) 21:04, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Wow, I don't remember this at all. The original deletion was certainly appropriate as per the AfD; I would suggest that if you wish to rewrite at the new location, with more and better sourcing, that wouldn't be a problem. Tony Fox (arf!) 02:32, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- If there's no issue with it I'll be happy to just write a new article from scratch :) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:48, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I agree. Endorse the original close which was in accordance with the consensus at that time, and allow creation of Murder of Tracie McBride because there are new sources that make that an appropriate decision.—S Marshall T/C 15:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse Whether an article on the murder will hold up would have to be seen by trying--I'm rather skeptical , but nobody can predict an AfD. ~~
- Endorse The result of the AFD. Someone can make another attempt at an article. Whether it will survive AFD, who knows. I'm neutral one way or another. Side note- I played a correspondence chess game against Jones while he awaited execution....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:01, 5 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. Having looked through some sources, I find the underlying story is not based on reliable sources, and the facts of the matter fail WP:CRIME. The associated stories/speculation is more like internet sourced fandom, and is far from scholarly secondary source coverage from a reputable source. It is not that it is not a serious topic, but that it is not a topic for an encylopedia. The consensus as decided at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Louis Jones, Jr. remains sound. WP:Alternative outlets applies, in this case http://murderpedia.org/male.J/j1/jones-louis.htm --SmokeyJoe (talk) 00:28, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse but I'm fine with something writing an article on the crime itself though. Though such an article may not make it at AfD, I think the broad-and-long-lasting coverage of the details of this crime give it a chance. Hobit (talk) 11:07, 6 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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