Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2005 September 29

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September 29

Railways

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The result of the debate was Rename all. Naming conventions candidate. ∞Who?¿? 02:43, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

10 out of 15 categories are in the form "Rail transport in" which I think is the best option as it is an inclusive term. The exceptions are:

Rename all CalJW 23:53, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Primary Route Destinations

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The result of the debate was Delete. ∞Who?¿? 02:41, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I remember the primary route destinations articles coming up on articles for deletion recently and it looks like the were all deleted because this is now empty. Delete CalJW 23:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Art curators to category:Curators

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The result of the debate was Merge. ∞Who?¿? 02:40, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This category was created last month, and a couple of days ago I created category:Curators. The latter just has one subcategory, which is for British curators, but it already contains more articles than the other one. I think we should merge category:art curators into category:Curators. While the majority of curators work with art, there are some prominent ones at major science and natural history museums and the like who don't. The main article (which is in the art curator category) is simply called "curator" and only a very few of the articles, which to judge from their variety were written by many different people, use the full term "art curator". CalJW 23:19, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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category:Russian monasteries to Category:Monasteries in Russia

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The result of the debate was Rename. Naming conventions candidate. ∞Who?¿? 02:37, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to standard Category:Monasteries in Russia. CalJW 22:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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category:Churches of Norway to category:Churches in Norway

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The result of the debate was Merge. Naming conventions candidate. ∞Who?¿? 02:35, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I failed to spot this non-standard "of" before. Rename category:Churches in Norway. CalJW 22:39, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Cathedrals

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The result of the debate was Rename all. ∞Who?¿? 02:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The majority of these are already in the standard "in" form for man-made objects, but some are not:

Rename all CalJW 22:33, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:CIA leak scandal to Category:Plame affair

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 02:30, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest renaming this category to Category:Plame affair, which is both more concrete and NPOV. Slarre 22:21, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Hotels of the United States to category:Hotels in the United States

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 02:26, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is the only national hotels category which is not in the standard "in" form for man-made objects, or at least the only one that has been put in Category:Hotels. Rename category:Hotels in the United States. CalJW 22:15, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:University and college media in Canada

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The result of the debate was Keep. ∞Who?¿? 02:13, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicated by Category:Canadian student newspapers and Category:Campus radio stations in Canada. --File:Ottawa flag.png Spinboy 22:14, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:LGBT rights opposition

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The result of the debate was No consensus (no change). ∞Who?¿? 02:09, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Inherently POV. The term "LGBT rights" is not a concrete political stance; it's a slogan. The equivalent for the other side would be something like Category:Family values opposition. Slarre 22:12, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:British synagogues to Category:Synagogues in the United Kingdom

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 01:51, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to standard form: Category:Synagogues in the United Kingdom. CalJW 21:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Prisons

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The result of the debate was Rename all. ∞Who?¿? 01:49, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to see all of these switched to the "in" form. At present only 6 out of 11 are in that form, but it is standard for man-made objects.

CalJW 21:42, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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category:Churches of Spain to category:Churches in Spain

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 01:46, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to standard form: category:Churches in Spain CalJW 21:33, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Latvian politics to Category:Politics of Latvia

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The result of the debate was Sure, Rename :). ∞Who?¿? 01:45, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Amend to standard form: Category:Politics of Latvia CalJW 19:56, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:User_la-N

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The result of the debate was KEEP. ∞Who?¿? 09:28, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is clearly nothing more than a joke and thus not worthy of inclusion. The text at the top of the category is jocular in nature and admits that no one is actually a native speaker (having to learn the language in school rather than by immersion means, by definition, that the language is not native). It is common knowledge that Latin is a dead language, meaning it "no longer has any native speakers" (even in the Vatican), because it evolved into the Romance languages. Other Wikipedia articles (e.g., extinct language) support this assertion. Flex 15:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete KHM03 15:28, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I seriously doubt that Latin is devoid of native speakers. There are native speakers of Klingon and Esperanto; I would be highly surprised if there was no scholar out there that raised thier kid speaking Latin to them. As much as that, it's better to be consistent across languages instead of deleting some natives and not others. Prosfilaes 15:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    I still question whether a potential, isolated case of here or there merits a category. If the category remains, however, then a number of Wikipedia articles need to be corrected for the inaccuracy of declaring Latin and other languages extinct. --Flex 16:20, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    I question whether it merits deleting a user-space category. Latin, for all practical purposes, is an extinct language, whether or not there are isolated speakers.--Prosfilaes 17:18, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    To keep the category means that You can speak Latin in your common life. It means that we have to create a new language, a new Latin, with the words that don't exist in Latin. This adaption to the modern life would include more than 3,000 words. So it would be a new language. --Genji11 11:06, 3 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    And let me crititise Flex for bringing this up again, and especially without mentioning the previous CfD. It takes a lot more work to run a category through CfD than it does to keep an empty category around, it's deceptive not to mention a previous CfD, and it's rude and very wasteful of Wikipedia resources to bring up an article for CfD repeatedly with a short period of time.--Prosfilaes 23:15, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    I apologize for not mentioning the previous Cfd. I didn't realize that was necessary. However, I discussed with admin Kbdank71 about when renomination was permissible. (I actually renominated it shortly after the first Cfd was defeated, but that was over-ruled because it was too soon and I was told to wait a few weeks, which I did.) See the discussion here. It was my impression that a couple jokers voted to keep this cat around the first time. I wanted it to get a wider hearing. (BTW, thanks for changing the category text, Prosfilaes. If the cat. is going to stick around, it's best to have the actual rationale for the hypothetically necessary category than a silly "explanation".) --Flex 12:54, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    A couple of questions:
    1. Does this mean you intend to keep on nominating it until it the cat get deleted? (Try nominating it for deletion over Xmas... :-)
    2. It also follows that categories can then be recreated "after waiting a few weeks".
    3. Me thinks/concludes the VfD "Project" is somewhat broken.
    ⊄ Sumburgh 13:08, 30 September 2005 (UTC) ⊅[reply]
    As I said, I just wanted this category to get a wider hearing than it did last time. I think that has already been accomplished, and if the vote is to keep, I will let it rest. --Flex 13:38, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry to be so hash. Recently I had a Cat deleted by "someone" that didn't even bother to to enter a dialogue with the article contibutors before nominatin for deletion. ⊄ Sumburgh 14:49, 30 September 2005 (UTC) ⊅[reply]
  • Weak keep: since this is a category used for user pages, and not pages in the main article space, I don't see a problem with having it around for a bit of community humour. — Matt Crypto 16:17, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Per nomination. Could cause confusion. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 17:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete -- Jim Ellis 17:39, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete CalJW 18:57, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Created as part of the Wikipedia:Babel project. All languages have had templates etc. created to allow users to record their fluency at one of 5 levels. Removing this level for Latin is inconsistent with the overall project and deleting the category will set a bad precedent. If Latin goes then someone will then argue (for example) that there are no native speakers of Esperanto (the 2 users in that category describe themselves as native speakers of both Esperanto and French). There is also a user who states he is a native speaker of Old English, for example, which he learnt from age 5. I have no reason to doubt the word of these users. Valiantis 19:07, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. As much as I love Latin and as much as I would love to see the day that it is once again a native language, I would have to vote to delete on the grounds that it is a misrepresentation to maintain that there are those for whom Latin is their native language. Being a native language implies that it is the language that parents rear their children with in a certain culture group. I am assuming that this is so for Esperanto as it is for the Hebrew language--which had been a dormant language into the early modern age. Is there another category that one could confect to replace this misrepresentation? How about la-P for "Latin proficient" or la-F for "Latin-fluid speaker"? Another test of a language being "living" and a "native" language is for it to continue to coin new words and idioms through everyday life. Can one point to a culture that speaks Latin as their native language? drboisclair 19:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
As a follow-up I would think that we need to rethink deleting this category because classical Greek has a "native speaker" category, and classical Greek does not have any native speakers according to my definition above. Perhaps we need to define what "native speaker" means. If I were back in the time of the Attic poets, could I speak their Greek so that I could be understood by them and they by me?drboisclair 21:19, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Delete. I am an "inclusionist," and as such, this goes against my grain, but it is only logical that we would not have a template for cases which do not exist -such as this one -where we have no native speakers. However, since it is for "user" pages, my vote is mitigated to "weak" delete, since we have more latitude in user pages.--GordonWatts 20:10, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: This issue has already been voted on and there was no consensus. -- Reinyday, 20:29, 29 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete per nom.Gator1 20:40, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete — Mark (Mkmcconn) ** 23:07, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Valiantis. ~ Dread Lord CyberSkull ✎☠ 23:32, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Latin does not have any native speakers, and the template should be altered to reflect that (as I mentioned the last time this vote came up). siafu 23:44, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • Maybe English was 'extinct' also: For the 300 years following the Norman Conquest in 1066, the Norman kings and the high nobility spoke only a variety of French. The elite did not write in english until Geoffrey Chaucer braved their denial of existance and wrote The Canterbury Tales. ⊄ Sumburgh 03:28, 6 October 2005 (UTC) ⊅[reply]
      • I'm afraid I don't follow your argument. Obviously English did not go extinct, as its still spoken now and was therefore clearly spoken by the population during the time of French-speaking nobility. Equally obvious is the fact that the language spoken and written by those in England prior to 1066 was clearly dead by the time Geoffrey Chaucer began putting pen to paper. I would refer to Category:User ang-N as an equally deletable example of that difference. If you're suggesting that in this case absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I would point out that there could well be a language spoken somewhere by some small population called "flarganargablargen" and it could well deserve a category for native speakers, but unless or until such a group can present itself as needing a category, wikipedia does not and should not have one. siafu 05:27, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Keep. People should be allowed to decide for themselves whether they are native speakers. They may be lying or exaggerating, which may be the case with any of the languages put in Babel boxes, but they also just might have grown up in an eccentric family of linguists that only speak Latin at home. You never know. Don't accuse people of lying or joking about their native languages just because there isn't a nation or tribe that speaks the language. The same is true of Esperanto, Interlingua, Quenya, etc. -- Krun 01:10, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep for consistency within the Babel project, as Valiantis explains well above. Jonathunder 01:35, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep This motion is improper. On the merits, I repeat what I said the last time: Montaigne spoke Latin before he spoke French; his father commanded the servants to speak only Latin around him. It would surprise me if no homeschooler had done the same. Septentrionalis 02:58, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Wikipedians have already decided to maintain the fiction that a Latin-language Wikipedia is worthwhile, so why not maintain the fiction that Latin has native speakers, too? There's also a Category:User ang-N for "native speakers" of Old English (only one user in the category for now, but it could grow). --Angr/tɔk tə mi 06:48, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: The Romans laboured with the concept of zero: Roman_numeral#Zero. "The lack of a zero digit prevented Roman numerals from developing into a positional notation, and led to their gradual replacement by Arabic numerals". Keep... as how much system resource can this simple consistency take? ... almost zero? The evening zephur is caused by the gentle rustling of leaves before they sleep. ⊄ Sumburgh 08:30, 30 September 2005 (UTC) ⊅[reply]
  • Keep: As pointed out above, why get into this argument with all the languages? In fact, it might be easier just to delete the "Native" group of categories and make the fourth class refer to those who are totally fluent, whether native or not. To be honest, that's where I think the debate should be--about the separate existence of the fourth category and the native category for all languages. We shouldn't just go around attacking individual languages. It's bound to cause bitterness and resentment.Kevin M Marshall 14:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keeep: As pointed out by the person above, I think the 'native' category should be replaced by one which denotes proficiency, not that the person speaks it as a mother tongue. I know that an overwhelming number of people speak English better than those who speak it as their mother tongue. ~ Eiríkr Rauði 15:07, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: Harmless. Hipocrite - «Talk» 14:57, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I put myself down as "native speaker" since I have been reading and writing in Latin for over 10 years of my life. It's a language I use everyday in my work as a research student, and which I can read with as much fluency as English - I might venture with more fluency than some of the Native English speakers write on here <joke> Hackloon 16:26, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep--Quadalpha 16:44, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: The relevant question to ask here is what constitutes a native speaker of a particular language. Some would say that the only requirement is for a person to have begun learning the language as a young child. This is possible even in the year 2005; I have known two people who were taught Classical Latin as youngsters. Both of them were Polish Catholics, and children of scholars, so there were reasons for doing so in their way of thinking. Some would add a qualification that a person should also be raised amongst more than a few fellow speakers, with the implication being beyond the bounds of one's immediate family. This is a bit of a problem since the only well known 'community' of Latin speakers and users is Vatican City and Roman Catholic seminaries- if there are others, I am unaware of them. Some would even go so far as to say that to speak a language natively, there must be some sort of continuity in native speakers in order to be able to assert a valid argument for being a "native" speaker, giving the term a context beyond simple usage of the language. I hold with the first classification. Therefore, I vote "keep".
  • Keep: I suppose that someone who is can read, write, and translate, knows the language, which therefore keeps it alive. Christopher 18:53, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: I've been speaking Latin for more than a decade now, from a young age through my years now as a grad student in classics. I would be hesitant to say that Latin is "dead," due to the fact that last summer I went to Italy for more than a month and met with a number of scholars who could not speak English, nor I their native languages. However, we were able to hold fairly exacting conversations in Latin on more than one occasion. If the only criteria the community can see is a lack of children speaking it to their parents, we are missing out on the opportunity to encourage a language which could make this transition into a large body of speakers with far less effort than many of the "living" languages with less than 10 speakers total today. Yonwe 18:02, 30 September 2005 (SMT)
    Keep in mind that Manx and Cornish were considered "dead" languages not that long ago. They now have growing communities of people who use those languages. Latin has a comparatively longer span of time between the last "native" speakers and the revival of education in the language in the West, but considering how much we have left of that language, both in literary output as well as instructions on how to use it, there is no decent reason to assert that Latin is a "dead" language- it is used today by many people around the world, and there *are* native speakers who live and breathe. P.MacUidhir 17:54, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was asked to comment here, so I will: If I remember correctly, the original use of the plain User xx template, which puts one in the xx-N category, was for those who'd admit to speaking with the proficiency of a native speaker, not necessarily one who was one. With the introduction of the xx-4 templates splitting native speakers from those comparable to natives, presumably those near-native speakers who were using Template:User la could migrate from that to Template:User la-4 (which doesn't yet exist). To the existence of persons raised as native Latin speakers I cannot testify one way or another, but should they exist there is no reason why this category should not stand empty and waiting for them. —Muke Tever talk (la.wiktionary) 20:10, 30 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep: The extinction status of the native latin speakers is arguing semantics which will never be settled. I'm convinced beyond reasonable doubt that at least one person in this wide world has raised a child speaking Latin first as their native tongue who is currently alive, just to spite anti-native-latinists I intend to bring my children up that way when I have them. That or klingon. :P
  • Keep: Why not? All the arguments for keeping have already been exhausted, and they all make a reasonable amount of sense. Eeno 01:20, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Retentate! CDThieme 02:49, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Latin is not dead but super rarely is it a native language I am guessing. ken 18:26, 1 October 2005 (UTC)kdbuffalo[reply]
  • Comment: The pronunciation of Latin is not even known to modern scholars and anyone who claims to speak it "natively" would in fact be speaking a modernized language based on written latin (which does not necessarily reflect common spoken latin in any way) and may or may not sound anything like the actual language. Are we hoping to encourage this sort of nonsense here? siafu 13:36, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
    • As Wikipedia is a written resource, I'm unsure what the relevancy of how Latin is pronounced might be. The Chinese Wikipedia, for example, can be used by people whose spoken languages are mutually unintelligible but united by a common writing system. Valiantis 17:01, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
      • Are you suggesting that one can be raised as a native speaker of a language without speaking it? The fact that a speaker of Cantonese and a speaker of Mandarin can communicate through written langauge (though these two dialects differ slightly grammatically as well) does not make either a speaker of the other's language, nor able to produce it. The situation with Latin does not resemble that of Chinese, anyway; there is only one form of latin grammar that is taught today anywhere, though several pronunciations. The statement is meant to illustrate the fact that a native speaker cannot arise without other speakers around, speaking, unless we're talking about the creation of new languages (creoles). siafu 05:13, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep we dont know if their will be a native speaker of latin in 10 or 100 years and as there are poeple using it we should keep it. PS to siafu their is no language that sounds the way it did 400 years ago. - Fabhcún 16:53, 1 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Aluion 00:14, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Harmless. James F. (talk) 07:17, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. On the grounds that, as stated above, it is for those who write/read (or speak) with proficiency equivalent to a native. There is actually at least one truly native speaker of Latin, age 5. Had the pleasure of meeting her at the UKY Conventiculum Latinum. Existent80 20:40, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per above. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 10:05, 5 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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Doctors

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The result of the debate was Rename all. ∞Who?¿? 01:25, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

In the UK and much of the Commonwealth only medical practitioners with certain specialist qualifications in internal medicine are called "physicians" (see for example Member of the Royal College of Physicians). category:English doctors is already correct, but there are other categories where Wikipedia is classifying as "physicians" people who in some cases would be guilty of gross professional misconduct, and maybe even a criminal offence, if they held themselves out to be "physicians" in their professional lives. Thus category:British physicians, category:Scottish physicians, category:Welsh physicians, category:Indian physicians, category:New Zealand physicians, category:Irish physicians should all be amended to "Fooian doctors." Osomec 10:50, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't mind me asking, what on earth does "Fooian" mean?!?--Mais oui! 12:09, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

From Foo :) Used as a "place-marker" meaning insert nationality here. Valiantis 13:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Support. I have always been under the impression that physician is a generic term for a medical doctor who does not carry out surgery - hence doctors can broadly be divided into surgeons and physicians. Some of the current WP articles support this, others imply that physician is synonymous with medical doctor. Clearly there is a divergence of usage here between American and Commonwealth English (and possibly between the usage among medical professionals and "lay" people such as myself). Whatever the niceties of the terminology, a category:British physicians which has category:British surgeons as a subcat is clearly wrong. However, renaming just Commonwealth (or other British-English-using) countries' cats to "Fooian doctors" creates a possible problem of consistency within Category:Physicians by nationality. Would it not be preferable to rename all "physician" categories to "doctor" (or, if it must be, "medical doctor")? As far as I am aware the term "doctor" for a medical doctor is also common parlance in the US. Valiantis 13:54, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename all Accuracy and sensitivity to local usage are important. This should surely be less controversial than renaming the "transport" categories misnamed "transportation" in American English, and no one has objected to that. Many of the articles will use the term physician because many distinguished doctors are physicians, especially historically, but these are the main categories for all doctors. CalJW 18:52, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename all and have them noted as exemptions to any standard on their talk pages. Hiding talk 19:37, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename all per local English. siafu 23:46, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename as suggested. James F. (talk) 07:17, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename all as proposed for now, but I wonder if they should all be called "medical doctors" instead. But certainly "physicians" won't do. Carina22 16:37, 2 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Estonian islands to Category:Islands of Estonia

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 01:22, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to standard: category:Islands of Estonia CalJW 07:12, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Brazilian politics to Category:Politics of Brazil

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The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 01:20, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to be consistent with other categories of this kind.--nixie 06:58, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Abbreviated UK categories

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The result of the debate was Rename with exception, see closing note. ∞Who?¿? 01:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some UK categories for expansion to "United Kingdom" as per standard policy.

I appreciate that there might be other naming issues with one or two of them, but I think it would be best to leave those for another time to prevent this discussion becoming overinvolved. CalJW 05:04, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Track and field venues to Category:Athletics (track and field) venues

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 01:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "track and field" is not used for the parent category Category:Athletics, the co-categories in the parent category, or any of the sub-categories of this category apart from the U.S. one. However for clarity, I don't think it should be dropped here. rename Category:Athletics (track and field) venues CalJW 03:59, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Modern weapons of Russia and Category:Modern Russian weapons

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The result of the debate was Mergeinto Category:Weapons of Russia. ∞Who?¿? 09:42, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

These categories are clear duplicates, so at least one should definitely go, but per the discussion below on the use of the word modern I would recommend they both be merged into Category:Weapons of Russia. I would also recommend dropping modern from all the subcats. The only other Russia would be pre-1917, so I don't think Category:Modern thermobaric weapons of Russia really needs the qualifier. - SimonP 03:16, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Argentine science to Category:Science and technology in Argentina

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. ∞Who?¿? 09:41, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to standard form: category:Science and technology in Argentina CalJW 02:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Drunk_drivers

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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:People convicted of drunk driving. ∞Who?¿? 09:39, 6 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Absurd category. What encyclopedic purpose does it serve? Constant edit wars, especially many with George Bush. I have trouble finding any justification for this category. What's next, "Category:People who have been convicted of a crime"? Delete Ryan Norton T | @ | C 00:27, 29 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

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