Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Two Sicilies independence movement

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Delete Two Sicilies and Keep Venetism MBisanz ^talk 23:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Two Sicilies independence movement

Non-notable independence movements, neither has received significant coverage in Italy or abroad. Le Petit Modificateur Laborieux (talk) 20:03, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No opinion on Two Sicilies independence movement. --Checco (talk) 20:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Delete much information about history, only irrilevant information about activities and notability --Invitamia (talk) 11:56, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following related page because it presents the same issues:

Keep Venetism. It is a well-know political movement of Veneto (Venetismo in Italian), which has been politically successful in the years through a bunch of political parties. As for other Wikipedias, it is useful to have an article about this movement, as we have Scottish nationalism, Basque nationalism and Catalan nationalism. Venetism is very different from the Two Sicilies independence movement, that I never heard before than finding the article in en.Wiki. --Checco (talk) 20:29, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: when did ever Venetism (which is, by the way, a neologism) receive as much attention as those independece movement you just named, either in the international or even local press? I'm sorry to say this, but I feel that being veneto yourself, you're a little biased.--Le Petit Modificateur Laborieux (talk) 20:34, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In the regional press it is constantly mentioned (Venetismo, Venetisti) and I think that Wikipedia needs an article about this movement, that encompasses parties, groups, movements and people. Venetist parties are quite successful in the Venetian political arena and Venetist ideas are often at the basis of Venetian regional policies (think only to the law defending Venetian language, that even instituted a "Holiday of the Venetian People" (http://www.linguaveneta.it/normative.html). --Checco (talk) 20:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe we could move the article to Venetian indipendentism, Venetian autonomism or Autonomism in Veneto, but, as it is obvious to anyone following Venetian and Italian politics that there is a big movement supporting autonomy for Veneto, I don't see how that article could be deleted. In Italian it is called Venetismo, so we could even name the article Venetismo, but I personally don't like this entry as this is en.Wiki. --Checco (talk) 21:09, 2 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Venetism. I think exactly like Checco. Lo Scaligero (talk) 09:22, 4 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Fritzpoll (talk) 13:33, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Italy-related deletion discussions. -- — LinguistAtLarge • Talk 16:12, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The movment exist and has followers. Why delete?

User:Lucifero4

Question Which movement If you mean the Two Sicilies one, see my edit below. Dougweller (talk) 06:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well the movment exist as you can see in their website [1] I can also remeber the opposition of Neoborbonici to the decision to repeal the exile of the male member of the house of Savoy.[2]

Delete Two Sicilies movement -- I can find nothing in Gbooks or GScholar mentioning it, everything in a general search seems Wikipedia based. Dougweller (talk) 06:31, 10 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, MBisanz ^talk 00:15, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are various groups seeking independence or autonomy of Sicily or the two Sicilies such as the Movement for Autonomies, Movement for the Independence of Sicily, Sicilian Alliance, perhaps the Sicilian National Front and Terra e Liberazione. A group that wants to bring back the Bourbons is new to me, a bit odd given the history but plausible. Associazione Culturale Due Sicilie gets 923 Google hits. Does anyone here speak Italian or lu sicilianu so they can track them down? Aymatth2 (talk) 01:52, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

After checking a bit, I ~~am tempted to start~~ have started an article on Two Silicies autonomy and independence movements (note plural: there are several of them). But delete this Two Sicilies article - the only sources given are for cultural associations that do not seem to be seeking to re-establish the Bourbon kingdom, just trying to revive awareness of past glories. Aymatth2 (talk) 13:26, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good article, but I'm not sure that Two Silicies autonomy and independence movements is a good title for at least two reasons: 1) most of the groups listed are not movements but parties; 2) most of the parties listed, notably the Movement for Autonomies and Sicilian Alliance, never speak of autonomy for the "Two Sicilies" (they mainly support the autonomy of Sicily) and "Two Sicilies" is not used at all in present times (also the Southern autonomists prefer "South" or "Mezzogiorno"). That's why I propose to change the title of the article created by Aymatth2 because it is currently incorrect and unencyclopedic. --Checco (talk) 06:05, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah - not a great title. But it is a work in progress, just started, after this AfD tweaked my interest. I am thinking of adding more on early (1870-1890) rebellions in the Mezzogiorno, maybe more on the 1942-1950 movement. Basically show better the evolution from unification to today. Any feedback/help welcome. But lets do that on the new article's talk, or we risk totally confusing this AfD discussion! Aymatth2 (talk) 13:22, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Surely Venetism is not a candidate for deletion? Lots of citations. Better to keep the two discussions separate. Aymatth2 (talk) 02:13, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep Venentism. No ideas on the other. I'm having a hard time finding English sources, but I found enough to confirm the idea exists. There really isn't a lot, but there do appear to be political parties that are notable and involved. Hobit (talk) 03:47, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Venetism; delete Two Sicilies; while Venetism is notable, I don't see any reason that Two Sicilies is either. The prose in the latter is better written than the former, but it's chock full of weasel words and unreferenced facts that it would need salting and restarting to become neutral. Sceptre ^(talk) 06:51, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Splitt Venetism out of this AfD, the two clearly do not have identical, inherently linked notability and as such they should be treated sepeartely. Usrnme h8er (talk · contribs) 07:42, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Venetism; there are plenty of reliable third-party sources here so I'm surprised it's even been included under this - totally distinct - Two Sicilies independence movement AfD... Coldmachine^Talk 18:31, 14 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Agree to split: too different to be judged together.--93.45.129.131 (talk) 09:57, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.