Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susie Lewis

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) — Yash ^talk stalk 06:46, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Susie Lewis

Susie Lewis (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

A producer and co creator of a animated series. The series seems notable enough but it is difficult to see notability for this co-creator. The sources are very brief passing mentions. Althou her co-creation is notable, that notability is not inherited by its co-creator. She appears to keep a very low profile since further searches yield nothing better. Fails WP:GNG  Velella  ^{Velella Talk}   20:39, 8 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

She is a producer and co creator of more than one animated series and she has won an emmy. The sources arent mentioned repeatedly because much of the information comes from the same source. She maintains a linkedin, instagram, and twitter regularly.

What changes could I make to avoid deletion?

Eaw2600 (talk) 20:54, 8 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

Add some sources that are actually about her, rather than just glancingly namechecking her existence in coverage of something else. Bearcat (talk) 06:47, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

She was co-producer for Beavis and Butt-head for 156 episodes, co-creator of Daria, supervising producer for Sea Rescue, as well as many other series listed on the page. Eaw2600 (talk) 21:09, 8 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:14, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 03:14, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Many people have pages on wikipedia that do not have media coverage specifically about them, but the shows that they have contributed to. For example, Glenn Eichler (other co-creator of Daria), Craig McCracken, and Lauren Faust.

Susie Lewis is notable because she was a female co-creator on a show that was "for girls" by MTV (Daria) ^[1]

She is quoted directly in the articles linked on this page.

What other changes should be made?

Eaw2600 (talk) 15:19, 9 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

Please read WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. The fact that you can find some other articles which are contradicting something you've been told about how to improve this one does not mean this article is fine and has to be kept — it means those articles are not fine and have to be deleted, and just hadn't been noticed until you pointed them out. So what I told you the first time still applies: the referencing needs to be improved with more evidence of reliable source coverage about her — not "quoting" her: about her — and those other articles do not constitute evidence that that's not necessary here. Bearcat (talk) 16:50, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. NewYorkActuary (talk) 01:32, 10 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

She could possibly meet WP:CREATIVE point 3, as co-creator of Daria. I don't know enough about the subject matter to say, can anyone comment on this? I don't see any other possible notability criteria under either WP:GNG or WP:BIO. Kendall-K1 (talk) 13:32, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - low personal notability, unworth a personal biography. a mention in her main article. Are there promotional or paid editing concerns? Govindaharihari (talk) 19:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. While I am not a fan of her work. That fact that she won an Emmy and co-produced a very popular television show is enough to establish notability. In addition, she has been covered by the mainstream national press/ For example, these news organizations have covered her: The New York Times, Variety, etc. Google is showing 64,400 results for her name.[1] I have noticed that voice actresses are more likely to have their articles deleted than non-voice actresses. That is probably due to actresses connecting with the public in a greater way. It is kind of unfair to voice actresses though. With that being said, she doesn't have much of a Twitter following.[2] And her Facebook following appears to be nonexistent.Dean Esmay (talk) 23:03, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

When I do that search, none of the first three pages of results is independent coverage (not just mention) of the subject by reliable sources. Can you point to some that are? Kendall-K1 (talk) 23:17, 14 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 22:07, 16 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure how the number of followers is gauged in relation to social media, but she is quite active on instagram and fairly so on twitter. There is a substantial IMDB profile for her. She is also on Linkedin and many articles can be found there that mention her in relation to Daria's 20th anniversary this year. Why is media coverage discounted if it is not specifically about her? Are there pieces of information that I could remove from the page rather than the entire page being deleted? She is one of the most active women in production, voice acting, and writing. Eaw2600 (talk) 18:32, 17 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

Have you not read our notability guidelines? WP:N is a good place to start. Kendall-K1 (talk) 19:59, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Followers on social media count for nothing toward notability — if a person isn't the subject of reliable source coverage in media, then no number of followers on Facebook or Twitter or Instagram exempts her from having to clear WP:GNG. Having an IMDb profile doesn't assist notability either, because everybody who works in the film industry at all always has one — and because the content on IMDb is user-generated, it's far from rare for it to be wrong (e.g. erroneously conflating two different people who happen to have the same name.) And as for being "one of the most active women in production, voice acting, and writing", again, reliable source coverage about her has to show that to be as true as you claim it is.

The reason we insist on reliable source coverage about a person is that people regularly make inflated claims about themselves to look more notable than they really are — musicians regularly call their current single a "hit" in their PR kits even though it hasn't actually charted anywhere that counts as a notability-conferring chart; writers regularly claim that their book was a "bestseller" just because it sold ten copies on consignment at the local diner, and on and so forth. So what we require is verification in sources that aren't directly invested in the subject's own public relations bumf — if people could self-publish themselves into Wikipedia just by claiming stuff about themselves that didn't have to be verified properly, then we'd have to keep an article about everybody who ever signed up for a Tumblr account. Bearcat (talk) 10:58, 18 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I had asked about social media following because someone else on this page had mentioned her lower following on instagram as justification for deletion. I understand why these things are in question, but I feel that there are several reliable sources cited on her page at this time. She is notable because she is the co-producer of Daria and did production for Beavis and Butt-head. 143.43.146.225 (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

A person is notable for something if and when they're the subject of media coverage for that something. Not "glancingly namechecked in other things", which is all that's been shown here — the subject in her own right, which hasn't been shown at all. Bearcat (talk) 05:55, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Television-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:00, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:00, 22 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I think I understand. Thank you for your patience explaining this. What about this article linked in the page? (http://variety.com/2017/tv/features/mtv-daria-cartoon-20-year-anniversary-1202000114/) she and the other co-creator have quotes throughout, so they were both interviewed because of creating Daria. Eaw2600 (talk) 18:15, 24 April 2017 (UTC)eaw2600[reply]

WP:GNG requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject." We could argue about whether this coverage is significant, since the article is about Daria, not Lewis. I think it probably is, and it does meet the other criteria. The problem is that a single source is usually not considered enough to establish notability. If you can find a half dozen more sources like that one, or one source in which Lewis is the subject, I think you could sway some of us. The other possibility is to establish notability under WP:CREATIVE point 3. Kendall-K1 (talk) 21:00, 24 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep This seems like a no-brainer. She's won an Emmy, passing WP:ANYBIO right there. She was a producer of one of the most successful and written-about shows of all time, and was the co-creator of a spinoff of that very show. Yes, the article needs to be fleshed out with more details on all three of those aspects of her notability, but that doesn't mean she isn't notable. Keep and improve. CrispyGlover (talk) 18:02, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - Even though there is not enough in depth coverage to meet WP:GNG, I agree with CrispyGlover that the Emmy is enough to meet WP:ANYBIO and that seems enough to justify keeping it. --Rogerx2 (talk) 21:13, 2 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• agree with above... her work plus the Emmy = Keeper Gtstricky^{Talk or C} 02:04, 3 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep, some editors above have referred to her number of followers on social media, this does not contribute to wp notability, afterall, followers can be bought, what does, is the winning of an Emmy ie. 1.The person has received a well-known and significant award or honor, or has been nominated for such an award several times. (from WP:ANYBIO) Coolabahapple (talk) 03:57, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - winning a Daytime Emmy meets the notability standards, independently of whatever "Daria" is. The article could use revision, though. Power~enwiki (talk) 19:28, 5 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: How is an Emmy-winner not notable? --Guy Macon (talk) 19:25, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.