Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Said Shavershian

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. v/r - T P 16:50, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Said Shavershian

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Not notable at all. All sources are linked to formspring or articles about his brother. Alpha Editor (talk) 19:05, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Australia-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Non-notable bodybuilder who briefly hit the news due to steroid use. I've never been much of a fan of the WP:BLP1E reason for deletion, however this also lacks a credible assertion of notability ("internet celebrity"? Please.). Assertion of notability is one of the iron-clad inclusion criteria, therefore, delete. --Yeti Hunter (talk) 23:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - WP:BLP1E doesn't apply for two events, (Steroid use; Death of his brother ~ which brought him in the middle of it) -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 02:47, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Formspring is only used as a source, per WP:ABOUTSELF. Other than some editors failing to read the sources, this article has multiple sources from The Daily Telegraph (Australia), The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald. This was not just from one event (steroid use) but played a role in the death of his brother too. Oh and "Internet Celebrity" just so happens to be the Sydney Morning Herald's words - not mine. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 02:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC) Moved to:[reply]
Delete - It's good to know when to stop, and so I will call it a day, for the article. If one day the individual does run into media, like he's already done, I have it saved in a Word document ~ I'll recreate, by all means. With respect to Worm, I oppose a merge, as it may eat into the quality of Aziz's article. Thank you, -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 09:17, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
As I said in my vote, I've great respect for the amount of work you have put into the article, considering the topic. He may well become notable, his brother certainly is and if you ever need it userfication, then give me a shout. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:23, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I am just not seeing it - he got busted for steroid possession (like a zillion other amateur body builders) and his brother died of a heart attack? Where is the notability? It is supposed to flow from his internet persona? --Legis (talk - contribs) 08:57, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. As much as I find any discussion on such people inane and stupid, in the same way as I imagine Legis and Yeti Hunter... The issue here is WP:GNG. There is significant coverage in reliable sources, independent of the subject. ˜danjel [ talk | contribs ] 09:17, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not really - the significant coverage is about his brother.--Yeti Hunter (talk) 11:18, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And his (Said) steroid use. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 11:21, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just to be clear, your assertion of notability for Mr Shavershian is that he uses steroids and his brother died?--Yeti Hunter (talk) 11:25, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Look you may twist around the article's words as much as you want, but maybe read the article and the sources, to get a more understanding of the bigger picture. Also, on a seperate note, he never seems to avoid media attention...[1] (Network Ten news) -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 11:30, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Recreational drugs too! It gets better!--Yeti Hunter (talk) 11:32, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Are you being serious or sarcastic - I'm sarcastic like 99% of the time, and I still can't tell if someone else is. Wow. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 11:34, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete According to the article, the only thing he has ever done was get a $400 fine for using steroids - less than you might get for an unpaid parking fine. He was not involved in his brother's death (who is only known for dying in slightly unusual circumstances anyway), but one article on his brother commented that Said had been convicted of using steroids - maybe to suggest that his brother's death may have been connected to steroid use - with a quote taken from Facebook by Said about how he missed him (most of the links in the article about his brother's death don't even mention Said). This means that the first hit on Google for Said is now this article about how he had a small fine for steroid use. I don't understand why Wikipedia expects major criminals to be "renowned international or national figures" before they are allowed an article, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:CRIMINAL#CRIM but it can have one on someone almost unknown who was fined $400 for steroids. --120.151.202.171 (talk) 02:12, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment:

First off both Shavershian's are starring in The National Road Trip (Please examine the channel - although it's on YT, don't be fooled) -The show is part of Filmotion Productions - Cast memebers have explicitly called it a "TV show" ~ According to FMA it's not, but, "This video production was produced originally as an online video for youtube. Because of its ongoing success on youtube we're looking at continuing our production as a web series. More is yet to come on a weekly basis." Now I have no idea if FMA is "notable" ~ this is the only article I found in Google archives, mentioning the production company: [2]
"A pin-up boy of the amateur bodybuilding scene has been fined $400 and ordered to pay $79 in court costs for possession of anabolic steroids." SMH ~ Pin-up (According to web definitions, is: "cover girl: a very pretty girl who works as a photographer's model." - In this case it's for a "boy".) ~ so maybe he's "notable" for his looks?
According to Shavershian's fan-page on facebook (which has 30,500+ fans ~ a non-notable person with that many fans?) The above SMH article in dotpoint 2, even mentions his large fan-base. [3] More fans on Facebook than Australian TV reporters: Melissa Doyle ([4]), Grant Denyer ([5]) ... More fans than Australian shoows, "The Morning Show" ([6]), Today Tonight ([7]) -- Said even has more fans than Liberal Leader Tony Abbott ([8]) (which to me is no surprise.. ;) ). I know Facebook is really informal ~ but it just shows where he is on the world's largest social network site.
Sources call Both Shavershians "Ameteur bodybuilders" - even though they don't compete ~ they simply show their body's around.
I know this might not mean a lot but, Said has appeared on: Network Ten; ABC ([9]), Sydney Morning Herald (multiple times; [10]); News.com.au ([11]); The Daily Telegraph (Australia) ([12]).
So - Keeping per: WP:ENT ~ has notability; fan base; in a production of some sort. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 02:18, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is it the "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions" that makes him an entertainer? The "unique, prolific or innovative contributions to a field of entertainment"? Or the "large fan base or a significant "cult" following" based on the number of Facebook friends? I presume you are going for Facebook, because appearing in a YouTube show about his brother isn't going to pass the other two. I can't see how you can classify him as an entertainer based on the number of friends on Facebook. --120.151.202.171 (talk) 02:33, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm just going by what media sources have reported. One source even mentions his large facebook fan base. -- MST☆R ^{(Chat Me!)} 02:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Article demonstrates notability via sources — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.84.38 (talk) 03:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: - Lets break this down. Both Sydney Morning Herald sources are about him being fined for steroid use. The Daily Telegraph source mentions his father and Said talking about the death of Zyzz. The second Daily Telegraph article mentions him once, and not even by name. Just said Zyzz, his brother, lived with his parents and his brother. The Ninemsn article does not even mention Said. The Age article again, talks about his brother, with comments from family. I'm sure its common practice for newspapers to include comments from family members in regards to deaths, yet those family members, and most time victims, don't get articles. The only thing about Said himself is his steroid use and him being fined. That is not notable. If anything, add a blurb about him in his brothers wikipage. He is not notable enough for his own article. Alpha Editor (talk) 16:31, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - without wanting to rehash the above arguments, notability hasn't been shown to my satisfaction in the press coverage, and WP:ENT doesn't seem relevant. When the subject achieves fame for something other than a court appearance and the death of his brother, an article may be appropriate. That time hasn't yet come. (Also - does the article really benefit from listing the bodybuilders he admires?) Colon el Tom 02:58, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or Merge into Aziz Shavershian. I commend the editors who've managed to make an article which will likely be such a target for vandalism and keep it in a quality state, but it really doesn't pass our general notability guidelines minor criminal fines don't make you notable, nor does having a mildy well known brother. The sources generally only mention Said in passing, focusing on the brother. Worm^TT · (talk) 09:00, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.