Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Robey Reed

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Since the relist after DRV consensus has clearly moved towards deletion. Michig (talk) 07:06, 28 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Robey Reed

Robey Reed (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Articles for deletion/Robey Reed
Medal record
Mens Judo
Representing  USA
US Armed Forces Far Eastern
Silver medal – second place Silver 1964
1st Tachikawa Invitational Armed Forces Judo tournament
Silver medal – second place Silver 1965
US Air Force Championship
Silver medal – second place Silver 1966
Inland Empire Championship
Gold medal – first place Gold 1971
National AAU Championship
Silver medal – second place Silver 1975


There's no indication that he meets any of the notability criteria for martial artists. There are passing mentions and results like placing at the U.S. Armed Forces Far Eastern Invitational, but these aren't enough to meet GNG or WP:MANOTE. Notability is not shown by rank or by organizational membership.Mdtemp (talk) 18:11, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Martial arts-related deletion discussions. — kikichugirl speak up! 18:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. — kikichugirl speak up! 18:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of United States of America-related deletion discussions. — kikichugirl speak up! 18:44, 23 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

KeepFounding member of the United States Judo Association, the subject of multiple independent articles, overall Air Force Training Command Judo Champion and more.[1] [1] He also competed in 13 national championships by 1970. [2]

passes MANOTE by either being (1) Subject of an independent article/documentary, (2) Olympic participant or world champion of a significant international organization; - more than a few dozen competitors, (3) Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion). The high ranking rationale that you stated for deletion for a number of them applies when ... "Only achievement seems to be that they teach an art (or founded a non-notable art); perhaps also avoid even mentioning them in the article of the art unless they are one of a few high-ranked artists in an art that has thousands of students." Judo has hundred of thousand practitioners.CrazyAces489 (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Being Air Force Training Command champion is hardly competing at the highest level. Where are his national and world placings? The BB magazine listings are passing mentions/results. Apparently you believe every early American judoka is automatically notable.Mdtemp (talk) 20:17, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Military competitions for Judo are notable especially when that is how Judo came to America. A founding member of a significant organization, and is a repeated medalist. There does exist SOME passing mention in articles but there is also indepedent articles. Please look at ALL the sources.CrazyAces489 (talk) 20:20, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
So where are his placings at JudoInside? Thousands of judoka results and he isn't even listed.Mdtemp (talk) 23:57, 24 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
US National Team in 1961 and founder of the USJA. [2] Judo info is also incomplete. CrazyAces489 (talk) 00:06, 25 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]
That was a passing mention that said he was on a team that competed at the AAU National Team championships. That's not the same at all as being on the U.S. national team.
CommentFounder of Seihoku-Ryu Karate Organization and holds a 7th degree black belt in karate. [3]

He passes WP:BIO, WP:GNG and WP:MANOTE. CrazyAces489 (talk) 05:53, 27 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete Rank does not show notability and there's no supporting evidence that he competed as an individual at the highest level such as the Olympics or World Championships. There's not even any indication he ever individually placed at a single national championship--that is, one open to all competitors. Military competitions are not at the same level. Passing mentions and competition results are insufficient to meet GNG. Papaursa (talk) 18:06, 1 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • commentBeing a founding member of a major Judo organization defers notability. A high level competitor defers notability. Military competitions are actually at a higher level at this point in history. Being an African American who competed and was able to achieve this at the time shows notability. CrazyAces489 (talk) 03:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, none of things you claim is supported by any policies or evidence. Claiming a military event is at a higher level than the actual world championships is just wrong. Do you understand that "defers" means delays? Papaursa (talk) 05:14, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Passes 1 and 4 of WP:MANOTE Passes 1 and 4 Subject of an independent article/documentary and

Repeated medalist (as an adult black belt, i.e. 1st dan equivalent or higher rank) in another significant event; - (e.g. competitors from multiple nations or significant national tournament, not an internal school champion)

  1. ^ https://books.google.com/books?id=kNkDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=robey+reed+judo&source=bl&ots=QdxYLLZegA&sig=jLSwY_q2CpywYB9G1sJh3epKMrs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rdHsVIn6BInBgwSv94KYDQ&ved=0CEYQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=robey%20reed%20judo&f=false
  2. ^ http://www.alpo-astronomy.org/jbeish/Resume_of_Judo.htm
  3. ^ http://www.ssckarate.ca/Dojo/Student%20hand%20book.pdf
  • Delete Fails to meet WP:ATHLETE, WP:GNG, or WP:MANOTE. Military events are not the same as open competitions and to say they are even higher than world championships is bull. Rank is irrelevant for MA notability.204.126.132.231 (talk) 21:20, 2 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • commentCofounder of the United States Judo Association and high rank shows notability! CrazyAces489 (talk) 06:18, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 13:50, 3 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Please list the independent sources that you believe give significant coverage of this individual. The sources listed previously have been passing mentions or routine sports coverage. Papaursa (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks,  Sandstein  20:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This discussion was closed as "no consensus" but is now relisted per discussion at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2015 March 10.  Sandstein  20:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, per my detailed comment and deconstruction of the sources at the DRV: [3]. --Mkativerata (talk) 23:05, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per discussion of sources at DRV, the three "major" sources and WP:GNG, one source isn't about the subject merely the person demonstrating certain moves, one is not independant of the subject and despite being half a page a good portion of that is not covering the subject anyway, the final appears to be a self-published book so fails to be a reliable source. --86.2.216.5 (talk) 23:33, 21 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Commenthe is listed as a world class competitor in one of the articles, as well as one of "the first 6 degree black belts" in America. [1]CrazyAces489 (talk) 02:24, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's been mentioned in many previous discussions that rank is not an indicator of martial arts notability. Papaursa (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
it can confer GNG and being the first in something is an indicator of notability, so that is your OPINION. CrazyAces489 (talk) 17:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Have you actually read WP:GNG? --86.2.216.5 (talk) 18:39, 22 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per above and the discussion at the DRV. Stifle (talk) 14:02, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails GNG and MANOTE. Armed forces competitions aren't the huge deal the author seems to think they are. Niteshift36 (talk) 16:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
  1. ^ http://www.wwmaa.org/articles/pdf/art013.pdf
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