Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raviv Zoller

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete and redirect to ICL Group Ltd.. When discounting SPAs and others canvassed to the discussion that have not provided policy based keep !votes, there is a clear consensus that Zoller is not notable as defined on Wikipedia. Either a delete, or a redirect is a valid outcome, and I have decided on the latter as he is mentioned there and this would be a valid search. Star Mississippi 21:06, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Raviv Zoller

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Raviv Zoller (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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BLP disguised as business brochure article. Fails WP:SIGCOV. No effective references. Fails WP:BLPPRIMARY. scope_creepTalk 11:14, 31 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Globes: Ref 1 Raviv Zoller to be appointed Israel Chemicals CEO]. This a routine announcement of work. It is primary.
The Marker: Ref 10 Ness Technologies Names Outsider as New CEO That is exact same news as above, indicating it comes from a press-release. It is a routine annoucement. Not in-depth either.
Reuters: I don't see it.
Calcalist Ref 4: Raviv Zoller: "I did not ask for a salary. I said, do you want me? I'm coming Raviv Zoller will likely be appointed CEO of Israel Chemicals More routine coverage. Not in-depth.
Haaretz Ref 3: Raviv Zoller, CEO of Ness Technologies It has a cv style listing of his work, age etc at the end of the article. It is primary and is PR. Fails WP:SIRS because it is so company orientated for this BLP.
Jerusalem Post Ref 7: The lounge. It is passing mention. His name is mention and nothing else. Not references satisfy the guidelines. Not in-depth.

Of all those references there, not one of them can be used to establish notability safely. They are standard annoucements, PR, WP:PRIMARY or very low quality. The are the standard type of coverage that any senior person gets, but there needs to be more depth and I can't get. scope_creepTalk 19:19, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose Seems the counterarguments are just nit-picking an otherwise well sourced article. Someone is worried about it sounding like a PR brochure. As with all other articles and biographies, if there is something negative about the man to include, then - like with all other articles - include it! This person has done more notable things in his life than most people: Founder of Ness Technologies Inc., chair of Clal Underwriting, CEO of IDI Insurance, and President/CEO of Israel Chemicals. And all of this is sourced! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk • contribs) 09:26, 3 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Starting a company, becoming a ceo of a company and becoming the president of a company doesn't make you automatically notable. Wikipedia has strict policies against making a BLP look like a PR brochure. Your comments indicate that your a paid editor. scope_creepTalk 03:26, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What???? Go through my edit history and user contributions - seriously? Your comments indicate that you didn't even read what I wrote! Steal the Kosher Bacon (talk) 05:25, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

CommentScope Creep, you are deleting information from the article based on reliable sources, apparently to empty the article of content and prove the subject in non-notable. Now let's get rational. If a company decides on strategic moves under the leadership of a CEO, how can you say that there is no connection to the CEO? How can you say that the business decisions and state of the company have no place in the biography of its CEO?? Your efforts to improve Wikipedia are certainly welcome. There are thousands of ridiculous entries and it's good to have someone looking out, but in this case, the person heads one of Israel's largest corporations and is worthy of an entry. I have been editing and writing articles on Wikipedia for a very long time, and I believe I can sniff out problems as well as you. If you look at the history, you can see I have dedicated myself to improving the encyclopedia. Deleting may be valid in many cases, but not this one. Best, --Geewhiz (talk) 06:50, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You seem to be very quick jump to conclusions, particularly since you haven't single edit to the article. This is type of information I removed: the ICL Group has become part of the global food production chain, venturing into new areas such as the meat substitute market. That is promotional. We will go through the references today. scope_creepTalk 21:45, 4 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A click on their username would reveal that it is a nickname for Gilabrand, a heavy contributor to the article. Havradim (talk) 22:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose How can the CEO of a company with 11,000 employees be non-notable?

ICL is one of Israel's biggest companies.

Notability is not inherited from a company. One does not get covered in an encylopaedia merely because they run a large company. Wikipedia is a reference of work to provide the sum of all human knowledge, not a soap box for a CEO. Such-change47 (talk) 12:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The book "Entrepreneurship in the Global Economy" published by Cambridge university press discusses his career in detail so the claim that the sources are not in-depth is inaccurate. There are also several interviews with him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WaterLord1980 (talk • contribs) 11:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A WP:SPA with no editing experience or link to the article except as a paid editor. scope_creepTalk 11:47, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Lets examine the references:
Ref 1. Raviv Zoller to be appointed Israel Chemicals CEO This is routine appointment news. It is primary and is both an interview and comes from a press release].
Ref 2. [1]
Ref 3. Raviv Zoller, CEO of Ness Technologies The 10 largest customers of Ness Technologies This is promotional and is not independent.
Ref 4. Raviv Zoller: "I did not ask for a salary. I said, do you want me? I'm coming Raviv Zoller will likely be appointed CEO of Israel Chemicals. Routine coverage. In the first interview since taking office, he is moved by the professional challenge. This is an interview and is primary.
Ref 5. This is a genuine source.
Ref 6. Israel Chemicals appoints IDI Insurance head as new CEO This comes from the same press-release as reference 1.
Ref 7. The lounge. It is passing mention. His name is mention and nothing else. Not in-depth.
Ref 8. Prospectus This is non-RS. Shouldn't be in the article.
Ref 9. Raviv Zoller appointed CEO of ICL Press-release.
Ref 10. Ness Technologies Names Outsider as New CEO Routine coverage of a job annoucement.
Ref 11. [2] Real secondary source.
Ref 12. [www.business-standard.com/article/companies/ness-tech-acquires-innova-for-25-million-106022201136_1.html Ness Tech acquires Innova for $25 million] Press-release.
Ref 13. Non-RS.
Ref 14. Israel's Ness buys APAR Infotech for $78 M Press-release
Ref 15. Ness Technologies Continues Tradition of Hosting World Leaders at Annual Customer Conference Press-release.
Ref 16. Ness Technology : Al Gore to Ness Technologies' Clients and Business Partners: Addressing Global Environmental Concerns Should be the World's Top Priority Prnewswire Press-prelease.
Ref 17. Giuliani visits Israel Routine annoucement
Ref 18. Ness wins $10m IDF contract Routine annoucement from a press-release.

Reference summation

Ref 1 Independent No Reliable No Not independent
Ref 2 Unable to access. Looks like a good secondary source
Ref 3 Independent No Reliable No Significant coverage No Not independent
Ref 4 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Not significant
Ref 5 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage Yes (Four paragraphs)
Ref 6 Independent Yes Reliable No Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 7 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Not significant
Ref 8 Non-RS
Ref 9 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 10 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Not significant
Ref 11 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage Yes (Same ref as ref 5)
Ref 12 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 13 Non-RS
Ref 14 Independent No Reliable No Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 15 Independent No Reliable No Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 16 Independent No Reliable No Significant coverage No Press-release
Ref 17 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Not significant
Ref 18 Independent Yes Reliable Yes Significant coverage No Press-release

The whole article is built on two secondary sources that confirm that he was in the Navy and he is businessman who founded Ness, along with a Cambridge University published book that is likely a good secondary source. The rest are routine annoucements, mostly based on press-releases that are not independent, along with several articles that don't provide significant coverage. The references are atrocious. There has been an attempt at canvassing. scope_creepTalk 12:41, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

After looking closer at the sources I see that another book cited is "If you really want to change the world", published by Harvard business review press. Cambridge and Harvard would not write about non-notables. WaterLord1980 (talk) 12:34, 6 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are at least two sock-puppets / Single-purpose accounts involved in this discussion User:WaterLord1980 and Philippe1226; maybe if we search carefuly we can discover a lot more.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Less Unless (talk) 13:05, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete wow, longest puff-piece I've seen. Nothing notable. Oaktree b (talk) 23:21, 8 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Notable without a doubt. Oaktree would do better to read up on the subjects he knows nothing about. I see from their user contributions that they are a serial deletionist who goes from one deletion page to another claiming "non-notability" with no demonstrated knowledge of the people/countries/businesses involved. The aggressiveness being shown here is unbelievable. Anybody who disagrees is automatically labeled a "paid editor" or a "sockpuppet." Sad, sad, that what was supposed to be a joint effort in which everyone is welcome to contribute has become a battleground where everyone is suspected of ulterior motives.--Geewhiz (talk) 10:20, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Gilabrand: I would urge you to calm yourself with the personal attacks. They are not well liked by the admin corps and will likely lead to a block if you continue doing it. scope_creepTalk 12:48, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Oaktree's been a trusted editor for the last decade and has been given auto-patrolled status, so he understands notability standards. Won an award for a photograph recently on Wikipedia Commons, so he has an understanding of what is required. Thanks for explaining this though. Perhaps you should review Wikipedia:Civility for an explanation, it's a code of conduct, not a list of "nice rules". Personal attacks are below what we're discussing here and we'd ask you to keep it to yourself, please and thank you. Oaktree b (talk) 21:12, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Very notable. A CEO of such a large company. Atbannett (talk) 12:16, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but what about the lack of quality sources? Saying he is notable without addressing the lack of coverage is problematic. There must be WP:SECONDARY sources for a BLP. scope_creepTalk 12:44, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To add to this, being the CEO of a large company of any size or having a large amount of money isn't by itself enough to make a person notable. WP:NBUSINESSPEOPLE doesn't even assume it for fortune 500 CEOs, which this one isn't. While the fortune 500 CEOs are usually notable, it's not merely on account of their job; it's been a strong indicator because they usually have a bunch of substantial independent press that this one doesn't. That makes him some person with a job. FalconK (talk) 05:36, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (I wrote this article and mentioned COI) He is an Israeli President and CEO. He has been serving as ICL´s President and CEO since May 2018. Prior to joining ICL, from 2008, Zoller served as the CEO of I.D.I. Insurance Company Ltd., which is listed on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange. In 1999, he founded Ness Technologies Inc., which began trading on NASDAQ in 2004 and served as its President and CEO until 2007.Ovedc (talk) 14:17, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This editor is being paid for his comments and as such he a coi. scope_creepTalk 15:37, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Lots of Jewish Isreali based editor's here now, commenting. Not one of them mentioning the dodgy sources. scope_creepTalk 15:31, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
This is plainly cavassing: Atabtnett and especially Danny-W are not active in the english wikipedia, they are friends of OVEDC (the paid contributor), he asked them to help him. The Israeli editors doing this all time, e.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Roey Peleg (2nd nomination). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:ED0:5F5A:D400:3072:5F19:57A4:7429 (talk) 15:33, 9 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment We've seen what he's done, but it's not notable, as explained above. We aren't saying he isn't notable, but based on what we have here, not worthy of a wikipedia article. Being Jewish Iraeli is besides the point, it helps to have a neutral, third-party point of view. Again, please stop with the personal attacks, we hold contributors to a higher standard and expect they do the same. A Canadian Roman Catholic if that matters (it does not, thank you very much). Oaktree b (talk) 21:17, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Motion that we close this this descussion, the discussion has devolved into personal attacks and useless banter. Two sources, simply confirming he exists. Nothing to prove notability has arisen. Delete until proven otherwise. Ban the sockpupuets and censor the paid editors that devolve into personal attacks. Oaktree b (talk) 23:11, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
They're is not one policy based argument amongst the lot of them. I'm thinking of taking the whole lot of them to ANI. They are tag teaming, which is probably disruptive. scope_creepTalk 00:27, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I can support this. Oaktree b (talk) 01:08, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to ICL Group Ltd.. Per WP:NOTLINKEDIN, a stand-alone article is not warranted here. Per nom, the sources in Hebrew are just as deficient, similar to a US CEO written up in Forbes, and the paid editing is a problem. A few of the references do not even mention him, or only do so in passing. However, this person does exist, and redirecting to the company is a better option than deleting. A line or a small paragraph about him would suffice. Havradim (talk) 23:05, 11 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete this WP:RESUME. I can't find any notability criteria that are clear-cut in support of this page, and the page doesn't describe anything that is noteworthy in the historical record at all; this only exists to promote the dude's work. FalconK (talk) 05:32, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Need to filter out the noise caused by clear off-site canvassing.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, — Coffee // have a ☕️ // beans // 11:03, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete - The analysis of references demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt this article subject does not meet notability guidelines. While not in of itself evidence the article must be deleted, it is highly persuasive given the article reads like a resume. I recommend delete for these reasons. Such-change47 (talk) 12:27, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - As others have pointed out, there is public interest. I will add the fact that millions of Google results are obtained by searching for the name of the company headed by Raviv (ICL GROUP LTD). ~Jacob ~ סטודנט של החיים (talk) 17:31, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Another WP:SPA who made exactly one edit. scope_creepTalk 12:43, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*Delete as discussed ALL above reasons. Non-notable fellow other than for doing his job. When it devolves into personal attacks, you know it's not worth keeping. Oaktree b (talk) 00:05, 18 January 2022 (UTC)]][reply]

Done Oaktree b (talk) 05:00, 20 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect to ICL Group Ltd., sources provided are not sufficient to meet WP:NBIO. Jumpytoo Talk 07:32, 24 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and redirect to ICL Group Ltd. Wow, there's a lot of bludgeoning going on here by unexperienced editors. Discussion shows that this article is not notable though, and I think we have a clear consensus to delete the article. ––FormalDude talk 00:22, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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