Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Noble outlaw

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was speedy keep. Nomination withdrawn. (non-admin closure)‎ There is an actual article with relevant content now problem solved. PARAKANYAA (talk) 16:44, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Noble outlaw

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Per discussion on talk page, this is an article that was started as vandalism by an IP 18 years ago and then became a sort of pseudo disambiguation/SIA despite not being either. This is one of many pseudo-SIAs that are popping up due to the change in class mask logic revealing articles classed as disamb that are actually not. This is not a relevant concept as far as I can tell and is not discussed as a term independently or in relation to either of the entries on the page. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime and Disambiguations. PARAKANYAA (talk) 04:27, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Consider a Redirect - A Google search suggests this article seems to have started life as a conflation of Young Noble and Outlawz. Consider a redirect to Young Noble. Alternatively this appears to be the title of a couple of books by different authors. Otherwise not an obviously notable term. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 06:32, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:43, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's a well-documented and widely accepted category of Byronic hero that also includes characters that pre-date Byron such as Goethe's Götz,^[1] Friedrich Schiller's Karl Moor,^[1]^[2] and Walter Scott's Lord Marmiom^[1] and Byron's own Conrad,^[3] and — yes! — Robin Hood^[4]^[2] as already on the page, and Arthur Miller's John Proctor^[4].
Tell them, Drmies!
Uncle G (talk) 11:38, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- As a "romantic archetype" it's found in tons of works, but also before the Romantic period, including in the Decameron, Two Gentlemen of Verona, Don Quixote (Roque Guinart, and The Beggar's Opera--moving on to Götz von Berlichingen and The Robbers.^[5]^[6] In Chinese culture there's hsia, a/k/a Wuxia--which extends our discussion to knight-errant (not mentioned yet?).^[7] Uncle G, you know I could continue mining JSTOR all morning and still find chunks and nuggets of gold, but it's pretty cold up here in my office. And--it seems to me that "Byronic hero" is a sub-category: this is a worldwide literary/historical/cultural trope. Drmies (talk) 14:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- So do you want to write the article on this? What is there currently is not a disambiguation page as neither of the articles so much as mentions the term "noble hero". older ≠ wiser 12:28, 9 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - We did. Drmies (talk) 16:00, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Please read books, people!

References

^ ^a ^b ^c Kershner 1992, p. 210.
^ ^a ^b Smith 2016, p. 59.
^ Jump 2016, p. 72.
^ ^a ^b Lorenz 2017, p. 67.
^ Angiolillo 1979.
^ Babinski 1979, pp. 307–309.
^ Wilkinson 1969, p. 428.

Wilkinson, Endymion (1969). "Reviewed Work(s): The Chinese Knight-Errant by James J. Y. Liu". Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London. 32 (2): 428–429.
Thorslev, Peter Larsen (1962). The Byronic Hero: Types and Prototypes. Minneapolis.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (link)
Kershner, Richard Brandon (1992). Joyce, Bakhtin, and Popular Literature: Chronicles of Disorder. UNC Press Books. ISBN 9780807843871.
Jump, John D. (2016). "Heroes and Rhetoric 1812–1818". Byron. Routledge Library Editions: Lord Byron. Routledge. ISBN 9781317235057.
Lorenz, Matt (2017). "'The lightning of my being': The Byronic Struggle and Apotheosis of John Proctor". In Marino, Stephen (ed.). Arthur Miller’s Century: Essays Celebrating the 100th Birthday of America’s Great Playwright. Cambridge Scholars Publishing. ISBN 9781443896153.
- also available as: Lorenz, Matt (2016). "'The Lightning of My Being': The Byronic Struggle and Apotheosis of John Proctor". The Arthur Miller Journal. 11 (1): 10–20. doi:10.5325/arthmillj.11.1.0010.
Smith, Thomas Ruys (2016). "'The Dying Confession of Joseph Hare': Transatlantic Highwaymen and Southern Outlaws in the Antebellum South". In Hobson, Fred; Ladd, Barbara (eds.). The Oxford Handbook of the Literature of the U.S. South. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780199767472.
Angiolillo, Paul Francis Mathew (1979). A Criminal as Hero: Angelo Duca. Regents Press of Kansas. ISBN 9780700601844.
Babinski, Hubert F. (1979). "Reviewed Work(s): A Criminal as Hero: Angelo Duca by Paul F. Angiolillo". Italica. 56 (3): 307–309.

Keep, of course. Drmies (talk) 14:29, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please take a look at what it is you are voting to keep. It is a pseudo-disambiguation page that directs readers to either of two articles, neither of which so much as mentions the term. I don't disagree one bit that this is in fact a common trope -- but what there is at present under this title is not worth keeping. older ≠ wiser 15:17, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
- I did. Drmies (talk) 15:28, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  - OK, and you think it is helpful to direct readers to articles that have nothing to say about the topic? older ≠ wiser 15:31, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    - You know, Bkonrad, I don't have to dignify that with a substantive response; actions speak louder than words. Drmies (talk) 15:59, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      - Whatever. If you mentioned that you were intending to start an article to replace the pseudo-dab, I would have said nothing. As things stood when you replied, my query was justified. older ≠ wiser 16:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        Bkonrad, I've been here almost as long as you. You asked a loaded question, and seemed to doubt my good faith: I try not to leave shit just laying around in a poor state. Same goes for my uncle. Drmies (talk) 17:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        I wasn't so much doubting your good faith -- just checking to be sure you knew what you were saying. On the face of it, you were voting to keep what at that time was a completely worthless piece of crap. I had no way of knowing what you might have intended. older ≠ wiser 18:07, 11 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

[FOOTNOTEKershner1992210-1] Kershner 1992, p. 210.

[FOOTNOTESmith201659-2] Smith 2016, p. 59.

[FOOTNOTEJump201672-3] Jump 2016, p. 72.

[FOOTNOTELorenz201767-4] Lorenz 2017, p. 67.

[FOOTNOTEAngiolillo1979-5] Angiolillo 1979.

[FOOTNOTEBabinski1979307–309-6] Babinski 1979, pp. 307–309.

[FOOTNOTEWilkinson1969428-7] Wilkinson 1969, p. 428.

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