Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of massacres in Jamaica

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. The last comment by User:Arb is showing of a potential for this list to be expanded, with reliable sourcing. Therefore, while I was leaning towards closing this as a redirect, I now find that there is no clear consensus to be made here at this time. — Coffee // have a cup // beans // 02:24, 3 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

List of massacres in Jamaica (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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A list of one item is not a list The Banner talk 23:59, 10 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. lavender|^{(formerlyHMSSolent)}|lambast 00:09, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: this is one of three related articles that the OP has nominated. The others are:

• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of massacres in Iceland
• Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of massacres in Guinea

-Arb. (talk) 12:46, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - Agreed with the nominator that a list of one thing is not a list, it is a fork of the one item listed on the list. Carrite (talk) 16:47, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment - Apparently an abandoned page, untouched by the creator or anyone else for more than two years. Carrite (talk) 16:48, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Abandoned" is a classic red herring in deletion discussions; there are many fine Wikipedia articles that have been untouched for far longer. -Arb. (talk) 16:08, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• I wonder if the best solution, when we have these one-item lists that are part of a series, is to redirect to the one listed article. That way there won't be a gap in either the navigational template or the likely search term. I also have a hard time believing there is only one massacre in the island's whole history that is worth documenting, particularly given the history of colonization and slavery, but redirection would also preserve the formatting in case anyone can properly expand it in the future. postdlf (talk) 18:08, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Caribbean-related deletion discussions. NORTH AMERICA¹⁰⁰⁰ 19:29, 11 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 02:46, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Article originator here. It's a few years ago but looking at the history it appears it was created to secure Jamaica's place in the By country section of {{Massacres}} (as postdlf alludes) and thereby de-orphan Green Bay massacre. There have undoubtedly been other notable massacres in the island's five hundred year history so it has potential to be expanded. Cf. WP:NOTPAPER, WP:NORUSH & WP:POTENTIAL. -Arb. (talk) 15:51, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Nominating after more than two years is not exactly being in a rush but you know your essays well. Unfortunately, one items does not make a list. The Banner talk 02:03, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • If it was an isolated list I might be inclined to agree with you and advocate redirect. However, it seems to me that lists that are part of a series are a special case. Think of it from a reader's point of view. Suppose a reader is working through the {{Massacres}} navbox (go view it anyone who hasn't) looking at various entries; after two or three their expectation is that each will take them to a List of ... article. So what are the possibilities with a list of one:
      • Delete; they see a red link in the Navbox.
      • Redirect; they are taken to an article. And have to pause from the task in hand to wonder why. If they are experienced in Wikipedia they may eventually figure it out but they may not. In user Interface design jargon we've "confounded their expectations"; something to be avoided where possible.^[1]
      • Keep; they are taken to a list of one item. They can immediately see that Wikipedia only has one Massacre article for that country and continue with whatever it is they are doing without a diversion into meta-think or puzzlement.

-Arb. (talk) 13:04, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect - a list with one item is a redirect. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 16:44, 14 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep or redirect to List of events named massacres. I agree with Postdlf's comment:

  I also have a hard time believing there is only one massacre in the island's whole history that is worth documenting, particularly given the history of colonization and slavery, but redirection would also preserve the formatting in case anyone can properly expand it in the future.

  Per WP:NOTPAPER and Wikipedia:There is no deadline, I would prefer to keep the list as is. This would be more likely to encourage editors to add entries than redirection or deletion. But if the consensus is that this should not be an article right now, I would prefer the history is preserved through a redirect to List of events named massacres.

  Cunard (talk) 01:31, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

• An idea - I've just created Draft:List of massacres by country and added the tables from the three nominated articles. This is a distinct topic from list of events named massacres as all that is required is sources call these massacres rather than being named as such. Now any list of one can be added here (along with the rest) as an appropriate redirect target. I don't have time to work on it right now, but will later if others like this idea. — Rhododendrites ^talk \\ 13:49, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The following is copied from Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of massacres in Iceland as this AfD ends first. -Arb. (talk) 14:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment @Rhododendrites:. The trouble with that approach is that there are approximately ninety (90) List of massacres in <country> articles so done properly your suggestion would produce an article with that many headings, all but three of which had under them only a link to a {{Main}}; that brings its own problems of maintainability, etc.

And all because a few editors are uncomfortable with the idea of a list with only one item. And yet such things turn up all the time in the real world, particularly when they are part of a series of lists; think text books, computer programs, etc. Interestingly, List states "A list is any enumeration of a set of items." I'm pretty sure that "any enumeration" can include one. -Arb. (talk) 14:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

End of copied text -Arb. (talk) 14:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

References

• Keep - notable list. Period.--BabbaQ (talk) 21:43, 17 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'd hoped that this AfD would resolve the issue of "Lists with a single item that are part of a navbox series" being a special case. However, as no one seems prepared to engage with that here's a link to a massacre of fifty or so people in 2009 for which Wikipedia has as yet no mention that I can find: A Massacre in Jamaica, New Yorker. The shooting of seven unarmed citizens by the British Army during the Morant Bay rebellion was also arguably a massacre. There are doubtless more. -Arb. (talk) 11:31, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.