Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lavon Hooks

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Lord Roem ~ (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Lavon Hooks (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Contested PROD placed by another user after I tagged his page as being potentially non-notable. Non-notable football player - fails WP:NGRIDIRON - was not a notable college football player, and all coverage is routine. SportingFlyer T·C 14:17, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. SportingFlyer T·C 14:17, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:33, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Mississippi-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:33, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:NGRIDIRON, fails WP:NCOLLATH, and fails WP:GNG. Almost all of his coverage falls under transactional pieces noting commitment to play for a school, signing or being cut by a team, being assigned to the practice squad, or an injury. Thus he lacks significant coverage in reliable sources defining his notability. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:55, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep subject may not pass Gridiron at the moment but does pass WP:GNG with WP:SIGCOV. Substantial coverage WP:NEXISTs Lightburst (talk) 19:52, 1 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Lightburst, can you be more specific. Every "article" on the Google search page you linked is either a blog, an article where Lavon Hooks is only mentioned in passing, or it is a standard "this player got hurt/signed/released/etc". This isn't notable coverage. Per WP:GNG, Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention... « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:01, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Repinging Lightburst. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete fails WP:ROUTINE. From AnUnnamedUser ^{(open talk page)} 22:51, 2 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep WP:ROUTINE applies to events and not people. Subject has feature articles in the news from his college career which is more than enough to surpass WP:GNG regardless of WP:NGRIDIRON or other measures.--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:18, 4 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• We've had this discussion before, but WP:ROUTINE actually applies to the coverage of people and events - see WP:NOTROUTINE which defines it as "people or events" in its lede. (Since we've had this argument before, I'm going to agree to disagree and leave it at that.) SportingFlyer T·C 05:48, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks, I've added more detail to the essay. Please don't try to make people believe guidelines say something that they don't. The word "routine" in Wikipedia:Notability (people) only exists in a footnote about the Internet Movie Database. That doesn't apply here.--Paul McDonald (talk) 13:06, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Paulmcdonald, do you mind providing us with some links showing "feature articles in the news from his college career". All I can find is this, this, this, and this. It is important to note that all of these articles were printed on the same day (Dec 20/21, 2012) and all focus on him committing to Ole Miss. Two of these "articles" are from BleacherReport and SBNation, which routinely focus on these type of minor sports-focused news pieces, and one is from a regional newspaper. This is standard coverage for a single event, but that doesn't make him notable. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 15:01, 5 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Repinging Paulmcdonald. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:56, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• In addition to the ones you found and those in the article, here's a batch of general broad coverage: Trick play backfires on Arkansas, sparks Ole Miss (November 10, 2013); Top JUCO recruit Hooks signs with Ole Miss football (Dec 19, 2012); The Most Important Rebels, No. 23: Woodrow Hamilton (July 2, 2014); Rebels sniff out, snuff out Hogs’ razzle-dazzle try (Nov 2013); Football Still Matters: Ole Miss Defensive Line (Jan 12, 2015); Defense Leads Ole Miss To Win Over Memphis (September 28, 2014). Some are passing mentions, some provide more details. In any event, we have a broad selection of material that is more than enough to build the article which is what WP:GNG calls for. I can't say I'm "enthusiastic" about this particular subject/article, but it makes sense to me that the threshold has been met.--Paul McDonald (talk) 23:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Those are almost entirely passing mentions except for the one article about his signing with Ole Miss. Eagles 24/7 (C) 13:17, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Agree with Eagles247. And again, the only article that isn't a passing mention is about him signing with Ole Miss (posted on Dec 19, 2012), which is the focus of the articles that I provided. WP:GNG doesn't concern itself with whether there is enough info to build an article, it is whether the subject is notable for inclusion. The sources provided fall well below "Significant coverage" bar required by WP:GNG. I will also point to the last bullet of WP:GNG, which states that even if a subject is found in reliable sources, the presumption of notability doesn't guarantee inclusion. He is mentioned in 15 sources or so, with the only "feature sources" found during a 3 day period all reporting on the fact that he committed to a college. This doesn't get close to meeting WP:GNG. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 14:44, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Like I said, I'm not particularly enthusiastic about it. I think it's enough, but I ain't consensus.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:24, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Fair enough, appreciate the candor. « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 16:31, 8 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails WP:GNG with a lack of significant coverage from multiple, independent, reliable sources. The article is generally a series of transactional/routine signings and releases, which does not improve Wikipedia. It cannot improve without significant coverage.—Bagumba (talk) 10:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment re: ROUTINE There is mention of ROUTINE at the WP:NCOLLATH guideline: College athletes and coaches are notable if they have been the subject of non-trivial media coverage beyond merely a repeating of their statistics, mentions in game summaries, or other WP:ROUTINE coverage.—Bagumba (talk) 10:30, 14 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete Contemplated closing this and determining consensus, but since it likely would've resulted in a delete and per WP:BADNAC, I decided not to close. Instead, I'll add my comments. Though TribLive isn't listed at the perennial reliable sources table, that doesn't mean we can't cite it in discussions or articles. It appears to have a similar editorial process to BuzzFeed, which is. That article confirms that the subject was sidelined due to an injury part way through his first season. As such, he fails WP:NGRIDIRON. However, as noted, failing WP:NGRIDIRON does not mean a delete, nor does it mean a keep. It comes down to whether he meets WP:GNG. Of all the Google news and web search results I trawled through, most were stats pages and routine coverage, for which WP:ROUTINE is an essay not a policy and there is a counter-essay. As nearly all of the coverage was based off of his either being drafted or his injury/injury progress, it seems clear to me there is not significant coverage. Thus, we have a dual WP:GNG and WP:NGRIDIRON fail. A complicated nomination, but one I'm pleased to support. --Doug Mehus T·C 21:32, 16 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete I don't see anything that shows he meets the notability criteria for football players or college athletes. The coverage is typical of what anyone signed by an NFL team would receive and a hundreds of players get temporary contracts every year without ever playing in a regular season game and they are not considered notable. Papaursa (talk) 00:50, 17 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.