Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Khaled Mohamed Saeed

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. I think it is reasonable to invoke WP:SNOW at this time. A number of editors have mentioned that the topic could perhaps better exist as Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed. If so, discussion on that can continue on the talk page. NW (Talk) 02:51, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Khaled Mohamed Saeed

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He died, alleged police brutality, pops back in the news today because the release oh his photo in the midst of the recent unrest has fanned the flames a tad. That's it. I initially mistakenly believed he died during the recent Egyptian unrest and attempted a redirect to such, but now I do not feel that is a feasible solution. This is WP:NOTNEWS and WP:BLP1E (though the "L" does not literally apply anymore, the concept is the same). It is worth a sentence or two in the 2011 article that his autopsy photo is causing a bit of a ruckus. Please note that "it is reliably sourced!" is not a valid reason for retention when discussing a person known for one event. If it can be shown that the event (death) itself is exceptionally notable, i.e. similar to the Death of Neda Agha-Soltan, then so be it...and the article can be retooled to address the event rather than the person himself...but IMO this does not rise to anything close in terms of impact and sustained world-wide coverage. Tarc (talk) 15:53, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The nom says "He died, alleged police brutality.." Did he speak from the great beyond? Edison (talk) 16:19, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I believe one could use common sense and interpret that as meaning "police brutality was alleged", i.e. after the fact, by others. Facepalm Tarc (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Keep - Article should very likely be moved to Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed. But the amount of world-wide coverage is just as similar as it was for Neda. See this search, which contains sources such as CNN, San Diego Union - Tribune, The Guardian, NPR, AllAfrica, Reuters, GlobalPost, Washington Post, FOX News, BBC News, The National, ABC News, ect. ect. ect. ect. Silver seren^C 16:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Further comment: I just want to note that i'm having trouble assuming good faith about this nomination, considering the nominator and the negative relationship I have with them. Silver seren^C 00:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I find a lot more news sources when the subject's middle name is excluded, as below. – OhioStandard (talk) 16:17, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

The problem wit dropping the name though is that by the 6th hit, you're already onto completely different people with the same name. Tarc (talk) 16:31, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not seeing the same thing when I run the news search, for some reason. The link you mention comes up as number 24 for me, 24th out of 133 hits, with approximately 100 being about our subject. – OhioStandard (talk) 00:48, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not to mention using Khaled Said (the Westernization of Saeed) and looking at the news for 2010 brings up tons of things about him, which is the search I ran above. Silver seren^C 00:51, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - per Silver seren. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 01:52, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Seems very widely covered, as per Silverseren. He's right re the move, though. This implies that his death had considerable impact on Egypt, as well. – OhioStandard (talk) 16:28, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Let's keep this for awhile as things progress in Egypt. In the long run, he may end up being one of the inspirations for a larger movement and/or possibly revolution. If that ends up being the case, he should have his own page. In the event things quietly die down and life returns to usual in Egypt, he should mentioned in the 2011 Egyptian protests page. But, right now it is too soon to tell. Hobbamock (talk) 17:44, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Hobbamock. This is actually on my watchlist because I read about him last week. (Its also already on 4 other wikis. The pic of him on the arabic wikipedia is brutal, btw [1])--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 23:11, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of News-related deletion discussions. -- Jclemens-public (talk) 23:30, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's rare for a death to receive international attention, and six months later this is still in the news. That one of the main groups organizing the protests in Egypt sites his death as motivation just makes this article even more significant. I think it should probably be move to Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed, but won't force that issue now. AniMate 23:49, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to go out o a limb and say that this nomination may not be taking into account how important this death is in the Egyptian protests. Saeed may be the Egyptian equivalent to Emmett Till, a boy whose death helped inspire the United States civil rights movement. AniMate 23:56, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep – I don't think I forsee his death going away anytime soon. A move may be a good idea, though. –MuZemike 23:57, 28 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Snow keep I'm comfortable with moving the article to "death of..." or some such, but I think having the AfD notice on this article is itself inflammatory given it's importance and the current state of Egypt. Tarc, is there any chance you'd be willing to withdraw this? It's clear how it will end, and I see a slim potential of real-world harm from the AfD notice. Hobit (talk) 06:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Egypt-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 14:28, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Hobit that this seems inflammatory. I would agree that it should be moved to "Death of..." but considering that it is an important part of what the Egyptian world is using to show corruption, the article itself should stay. Also, Mohamed ElBaradei has visited Saeed's family, suggesting that this is still an important issue within the protests. (I've never discussed on the talk page, so I'm sorry if I added my part incorrectly)

Keep: A politically very notable incident, with importance rising beyond the individual himself. Change to "Death of..." might be a good idea. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and move to cover the event instead of the person. --Cyclopia ^talk 18:01, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as notable according to WP:GNG. I don't see any need to close this early out of some fear that it might be inflammatory to some people. If anything, the transparency of this discussion might help some people understand the principles of both consensus and transparency. If it clearly falls under WP:SNOW, then close early, but give it a few more days first. First Light (talk) 19:20, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep There's no question of notability. By Jan. 21, "nearly 69,000 people had signed on to the Jan. 25 protest on the 'We Are All Khaled Said' Facebook page." [2] These modern deaths are at present historically important to their lands. Only time and reflection will decide whether they are accorded lasting honors. As for "inflammatory": yes, the revelation of brutality arouses emotions. Should WP help eyes stay closed instead?? Print encyclopedias were by necessity about retrospect; should WP adopt that limitation? Twang (talk) 23:03, 29 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Snowball keep Clearly notable, tons of sources and significance. If anything, fine to move this to Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed. --Aude (talk) 02:20, 30 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.