Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ingvar Jónsson (ice hockey)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Kurykh (talk) 20:57, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ingvar Jónsson (ice hockey)

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NN player. Fails WP:NHOCKEY (no presumptive notability is given to national team players who do not play in the top pool), no evidence he meets the GNG. Ravenswing 16:02, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Iceland-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:31, 16 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete a non-notable hockey player.John Pack Lambert (talk) 05:58, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article allready mentioned that Ingvar has represented his country in an World Championship once. I have added an source that proves that he has been in 17 world championships. Ingvar qualifies under criteria 6 of WP:NHOCKEY: "Played on a senior national team (such as at the Olympic Games or World Championship)".--Snaevar (talk) 20:55, 18 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Erm ... that's addressed in the first sentence of my nomination: "no presumptive notability is given to national team players who do not play in the top pool." Criterion six refers only to the top pool, those teams actually competing for the world championship. Iceland has never competed in higher than the fourth pool at the WC, and has never been eligible to win the world championship. Ravenswing 06:54, 19 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The quote "no presumptive notability..." is taken from Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/League assessment, an essay. Essays are nothing more than just the opinion of an another editor on said subject. They do not have any votes and consensus behind them like guidelines and policies. They are in no way any form of guidelines that other editors should follow. Ironically, I could even reject that statement on the basis that it is not notable, since notability after all is intended to discourage writing of subjects that are only known or found to be interesting among an small group of people.--Snaevar (talk) 17:50, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: Longstanding consensus is as I've outlined; Iceland has never competed for the World Championship, period. (Quite aside from anything else, as the author of both the NHOCKEY criteria and NHOCKEY/LA -- the latter being referenced in the former -- references to the one being "opinion" and the other being black-letter rules are amusing.) Ravenswing 18:49, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No non-routine articles found on this player (and even those are hard to find, Icelandic or otherwise). Irregardless of NHOCKEY, he fails GNG per those standards, as even in NSPORTS, passing GNG supersedes the minimum requirements of any NSPORTS requirements. And @Snaevar:, yes he played in a very low division World Championship, but not the Group A World Championship linked in NHOCKEY (there are dozens at different levels and age ranges, as well as non-IIHF tournaments). I believe the particular phrasing used in NHOCKEY was chosen to keep it less verbose and the essay was designed to fully explain how ice hockey coverage and quality is not equal across all countries. Perhaps the essay should have a section on what a top level senior national team is defined to as well? Yosemiter (talk) 21:37, 24 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is an ambiguous entry, and the hockey notability guidelines (from an essay) are sloppy and ambiguous (that word again). The link to the World Championship seems to indicate that only members of teams that reach the final 16 are notable, but the essay ought to state that unambiguously. Interestingly the Association Football criteria are that any player who's played in any top tier international is potentially notable. Ingvar was (sort of) the subject of an article in the IIHS publication for having represented Iceland many times. I'm not a hockey fan, but perhaps someone who is could clean up WP:N. Tapered (talk) 06:50, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Tapered: The NHOCKEY guidelines are not from an essay, they are from Wikipedia:Notability (sports), a consensus based set of guidelines that presume notability. The essay in question is an addendum for addressing the unequal coverage and quality of hockey leagues across the world (which judging by the length of the essay, shows that listing said leagues in the NHOCKEY section would make it far longer than the NSPORTS sections) and currently has nothing to do senior national teams. Association Football is one of the most popular sports in world so any comparison in hockey is irrelevant in terms of notability and GNG. As for addressing the NHOCKEY clarity, the nominator here, Ravenswing, was likely the primary author on both NHOCKEY and the League Assessment. Yosemiter (talk) 15:09, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Non-notable hockey player. Only coverage I could find was from the IIHF article, but even that article is not really about him. Playing for Iceland is irrelevant, they have never come close to playing in anything "such as" the World Championship or the Olympics as criterion #6 indicates.18abruce (talk) 20:10, 25 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.