Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Toews

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Consensus that the article meets the general notability guideline. Davewild (talk) 08:02, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

David Toews (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Junior hockey player who has not yet established himself to meet notability requirements per WP:NHOCKEY. Wikipedia is not a Crystal Ball. His brother plays in the NHL, bur notability is not inherited. Dolovis (talk) 04:00, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep: Again, I question the following of WP:BEFORE. I remember successfully proding this article in 2008, but since then, I see a number of articles that indicate Toews passes WP:GNG. In a quick 5 minute search of Google, I found [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9]. These of course go along with the dozens of other articles out there that cover the day to day hockey life of Toews through game recaps. I haven't checked the Canadian Newsstand database at ProQuest, but I'm sure if I do, I will find even more articles that establish his notability. Hopefully these nine will be enough to do that for you. – Nurmsook! ^talk... 04:36, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on the above sources: I did follow WP:BEFORE, and found no significant, independent, reliable sources to support this article (which clearly falls short of WP:NHOCKEY). None of the articles that are listed above are enough to support a WP:GNG argument for this person.

1. The Hot List: a weekly HN roundup of minor league, junior, college and high school players (not significant)

2. Article Toews brothers want to renew rivalry on ice, about his kinship to famous brother

3. Article Islanders prospects Blake Kessel and David Toews look to make own mark, Local sports coverage (not significant coverage)

4. This article is not about David at all, he is just making a prediction for the NHL Playoffs

5. Article, Younger Toews joins Wheaties, short press release announcement (not significant)

6. NHL Insider, Toews, Kessel receiving brotherly support, article about kinship with famous brother by NHL staff writer is not independent

7. Blog report to share short press release announcement (not signifigant)

8. USA Today article, North Dakota hockey getting another Toews, is independent coverage, but it is just a standard sport article to announce that David is joining the the Fighting Sioux. Fine as a reference, but not enough to support notability (routine sport coverage, not significant)

9. ESPN article is about Shattuck-St. Mary's School, and the mention about David is passing and insignificant. I couldn't even find his name in the article without the help of my text search.

Dolovis (talk) 05:45, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There is no pleasing you, isn't there? Regardless, the above sources clearly indicate his passing of WP:GNG. I could scrounge up some more, but I'm sure you would find a reason to knock those down as well. I've shown all that is needed. Hopefully the closing admin will see that also. Cheers! – Nurmsook! ^talk... 06:24, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. —Dolovis (talk) 06:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep love the comment on reference 8 there Dolovis, calling an article in a National paper just a standard article. How many players get articles in national papers about joining a team. A university team at that. This player definitely has notability. And calling #5 a press release. Do you even know what a press release is? -DJSasso (talk) 12:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sports teams issue press releases for virtually every single player who joins their team, and these are generally published with sports news. The article you are referring to is nothing more than that, with the exception that it identifies that the new player has a famous NHL brother. Wikipedia's notability standards would be completely meaningless if all that it took to be deemed notable is to have your name mentioned in the sports section USA Today. The article is not significantly about David. It is about his kinship to his famous brother. Dolovis (talk) 14:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

From what I gather, the QMI Agency, the source of said article, is not a public relations firm. ccwaters (talk) 19:02, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here the Wheat kings press release from the day before [10] ccwaters (talk) 19:08, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I was under the impression that "joined the team" coverage was considered routine. Additionally, though I can't find a diff right now, I have also read the view that there should be sufficient notable sources that contain enough information to write a decent article about the subject's life. The sources referenced above don't seem to fit the bill. (There may be others, of course, that do.) isaacl (talk) 22:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ice hockey-related deletion discussions. —DJSasso (talk) 12:32, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep: As with the Jared Staal AfD, Dolovis argues that the GNG somehow has an exception built in for people with more famous kinfolk, or for people who do not qualify under subordinate criteria. This quaint notion has no basis whatsoever in policy or guideline. It is quite well established that even if a subject fulfills no conceivable notability criteria, meeting the GNG is not only quite sufficient, the GNG overrides such criteria. It is utterly irrelevant why newspapers choose to write articles about people; that they do so is enough to satisfy the GNG.  Ravenswing  14:15, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Snow keep per sources found by Nurmsook. Again, Dolovis' assessment of the sources is incredibly off-mark. Grsz 11 14:30, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - Appears to fail WP:GNG and WP:NHOCKEY. Recreate when/if the athlete becomes notable in the future. Kugao (talk) 19:07, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: Just out of curiosity, what element of the GNG do you claim this doesn't meet, and based upon what evidence?  Ravenswing  22:58, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Some of the sources provided by Nurmsook, particularly this one this one and this one establish notability per WP:GNG. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 02:04, 19 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.