Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cape Breton International Drum Festival (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

Cape Breton International Drum Festival

The result was ‎WITHDRAWN. (non-admin closure) JFHJr (㊟) 03:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

AfDs for this article:

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This article has never had any cites at all, let alone to a reliable source. Because the vast majority of it was a list of notable and non-notable living persons, I removed it. Looking for sources, I got mostly 1) PR, 2) passing mention, no in-depth coverage of the festival itself, or 3) announcements for upcoming/planned events, which cannot support prose to say it happened or was significant. See WP:V and WP:OR. JFHJr (㊟) 02:56, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. See also the previous AFD. The Cape Breton Post appears to have a huge amount of bylined SIGCOV as a search in ProQuest demonstrates but I'm not sure where to access the archives. There is a variety of other reasonable SIGCOV [1][2][3]. —siro χ o 04:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Without fixing/adding content and sourcing, insisting it's out there isn't very persuasive. Also, excessive(ly) local coverage does little compared to wider coverage. JFHJr (㊟) 06:39, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per WP:NEXIST, Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article, and as they say, AfD isn't cleanup. —siro χ o 17:52, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I cleaned up the article before nominating. The multiple reliable sources giving in-depth coverage don't exist. If they do, put them in the article. JFHJr (㊟) 01:26, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The previous AfD mentions includes several references, but the websites hosting at least one of those references have disappeared. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 04:09, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So far, I removed one cite to a blog. And second that failed WP:V and contained no prose at all. The remaining WP:RS seem to be actually about a Mr. Brennan Murray. And are actually the exact same story twice on one site. JFHJr (㊟) 06:31, 1 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Music, Events, and Canada. — Karnataka ^talk 07:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: We are still looking at an article with one reliable source giving double coverage primarily to Mr. Brennan Murray. If other sources are out there, it's time to put up. JFHJr (㊟) 01:12, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I appreciate your desire to improve things. I encourage you to read through WP:NEXIST. The sources do not need to be added to the article as part of this discussion. If you would like to add the sources found in this and the previous discussion, please be WP:BOLD and do so. If you are worried about credit, I sometimes reference the discussion in the edit summary. Up to you! —siroχo 01:36, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
"Notability is based on the existence of suitable sources, not on the state of sourcing in an article" ...and those sources don't exist ...none gives in-depth coverage for encyclopedic content (WP:GNG). JFHJr (㊟) 01:54, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, your PQ links above lead to future tense prose. Announcements about upcoming things. That can't support prose that said it happened or was noteworthy. JFHJr (㊟) 02:03, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Asserting in-depth coverage of events when you can't even access the sources you claim have it (as you stated you couldn't) is dishonest. JFHJr (㊟) 02:23, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@JFHJr your comment to Siroxo immediately above is unfair to say the least. Some might call it worse. I have been in dozens, maybe hundred of AfDs with Siroxo and they always edit in good faith.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:15, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's me pointing out someone who is claiming substantial coverage without actually having access to the sources, and then !voting here. The "sources" don't have them. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 04:18, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What I said is not at all unfair. You can refactor your edits all you want after replies. You leveled a PA yourself there, and didn't comment on the contents or sourcing of the article at discussion. Your past experiences doesn't mean anything for this article subject's notability. Cheers! JFHJr (㊟) 04:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, no, it wasn't a personal attack -- more of warning. I subsequently tempered my comment to be more polite but the original comment was a fair assessment and hardly a personal attack. Since you latched on to this, I'll spell out what I originally wrote and let others decide for themselves:
"JFHJr your comment to Siroxo immediately above is borderline uncivil and/or a personal attack for which you could get sanctioned. I have been in dozens, maybe hundred of AfDs with Siroxo and they always edit in good faith.""

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 04:44, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nice! JFHJr (㊟) 04:50, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

!Voting based on not having done the reading, no access, claiming reliable substantial coverage that there is not. It's uncivil and personal to call that out. Especially when it's an experienced editor who should know better. Nice indeed. JFHJr (㊟) 05:17, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think this is probably notable and I'm sympathetic to you refs search but I'm busy with an article of my own that's teetering on the brink at AfD with a hungry mob.

I did squeeze in a little time for searching and found this:

Don't know if it'll help but give it a try. This article about Bruce Aitken also talks about the festival. You might look for other articles by searching on Aiken's name.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 02:40, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Aitken is a WP:BLPSPS because he's basically talking about himself. If prose based on him talking about his own festival belongs anywhere, it's his own article. He doesn't add anything to the festival's stand-alone notability. JFHJr (㊟) 02:50, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there are three editors arguing for a Keep and one determined editor insisting on Deletion. I think we need a few more participants and let's focus on the sources, not evaluating other editors.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 01:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Has (several) full length articles in Modern Drummer: [4][5][6]]... Why? I Ask (talk) 09:54, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's awesome. That's two sources giving substantial coverage (in the past tense). I'm withdrawing this nomination. JFHJr (㊟) 03:53, 8 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: see this much longer version of the article before it was cut back to a stub and nominated the article for deletion.

A lot of big names came to this festival.

--A. B. ^{(talk • contribs • global count)} 16:11, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Tons of names + no reliable sourcing = tons of BLP violations. There's nothing about famous people attending that makes this festival notable. See WP:GNG, WP:RS and WP:BLPSPS. JFHJr (㊟) 22:25, 7 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.