Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brito Sozinho

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. MBisanz ^talk 20:08, 24 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brito Sozinho

Brito Sozinho (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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fails WP:BIO. the limited coverage merely confirms he held the post. Ambassadors are not inherently notable LibStar (talk) 15:45, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete: Google search turned up scant results. Not everyone included here is notable. Quis separabit? 15:59, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (✉) 18:34, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep given that ambassadors are not inherently notable, I believe this one is. His multiple appointments to Angola's top allies in Europe and Africa indicate his importance to Angolan diplomacy. That he received Guinea-Bissau's highest honor is another indication. Given the linguistic and cultural deficiencies that are widely documented within Wikipedia, namely that non-Western and non-English speaking people are significantly under researched on here, I am inclined to support and continue searching for more references in Portuguese language sources.--TM 19:52, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note that I've added another reference from a book on oil politics in Angola which indicates that he is among the wealthiest and most powerful operators in his country, which only reinforces my belief that the article should be kept.--TM 19:59, 4 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:09, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bilateral relations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 05:09, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. In 2011, he received the National Order of Merit from Guinea-Bissau[1] satisfying WP:ANYBIO. Pburka (talk) 16:33, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  Oops - unlinked award per AbstractIllusions' comment below. Pburka (talk) 23:00, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete WP:ANYBIO doesn't apply (wikilink ↑ is to the wrong country) fixed. If you can't get a list of most winners of an award then it doesn't qualify under ANYBIO (note: I tried various Portuguese translations but couldn't find one that told me anything about the award. English google has nothing). Searched Newsbank (144 hits) and LexisNexis (0 hits) for the ambassador. There is only one article in that stack that has any content that rises above WP:ROUTINE. The risk of a poor or libelous article that is not well-tended outweighs the positives of representing someone from outside the West. In a world with press parity, would there be sufficient sources for notability? Probably. But right now, I couldn't find sourcing that indicated he does not approach GNG and the award comes nowhere near ANYBIO. AbstractIllusions (talk) 21:42, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where does it say "If you can't get a list of most winners of an award then it doesn't qualify under ANYBIO"? Guinea-Bissau is a small, very poor, non-English speaking country. Should we just ignore those whom they honor because our search engines are insufficient and further Wikipedia's WP:BIAS?--TM 23:05, 9 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia's bias is not created in a vacuum. The best thing you can do to combat it is support African news sources. I subscribe to a number of newspapers throughout West Africa. The criteria at WP:ANYBIO is "well-known and significant award". Hence, if those who win it are not regularly announced in media sources it is neither "well-known" nor "significant" and certainly not both. Quality sourcing is always the best response to bias on wikipedia, and I'm not sure that Ambassador Sozinho meets the criteria. (Further note: like always, I search local news sources and could not find any Guinea-Bissau news reports on the Ambassador winning the award on Gazeta de Noticias, Guine-Bissau, or Bissau-Digital. So, it isn't even that well documented in the local press, as limited as it is. I understand why the official Angolan news agency would like to highlight winning the award, but national press didn't which makes the case that it is a well-known or significant award very difficult to make). AbstractIllusions (talk) 02:44, 10 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep Historically, ambassadors are often notable for their business career, rather than their diplomatic position. Power~enwiki (talk) 04:51, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

only 1 source has been provided for his business career. LibStar (talk) 09:57, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

This answer doesn't even make sense. 1. The vast majority of ambassadors worldwide are career diplomats and have NO PRIOR BUSINESS CAREER. 2. Why would a successful businessperson be notable? Some are if they receive coverage in RSs, some aren't. See: LibStar's comment above. 3. This answer does not support the notability of Ambassador Sozinho, but a general notability of ambassadors. Once again, it is wrong on its reasoning and seems dramatically incorrect in this instance. The fact that Sozinho has gone to multiple countries and not just one post seems to directly refute his notability based on other criteria. If you think Ambassador Sozinho is notable, please make that case. AbstractIllusions (talk) 17:28, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

He's been an ambassador to 8 countries, it may be that his role in the Angolan government should be considered equivalent to a secretary of State, rather than one of 200+ ambassadors. Power~enwiki (talk) 22:19, 12 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No, no, no, no...no. Georges Rebelo Chicoti is the equivalent to the Secretary of State of Angola. Ambassador Sozinho is a career diplomat with some oil holdings. If you have sources to show that he qualifies by WP:GNG, I would like to see them (and would change my vote accordingly). Otherwise, I think making false equivalences is not helping me get a fuller picture of whether this should be a keep or not. AbstractIllusions (talk) 03:32, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, that's useful information. I retract my vote and remain neutral. Power~enwiki (talk) 08:06, 13 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - career diplomat who has held the highest office (ambassador with full powers) to eight different nations. That makes hims more than run of the mill. Bearian (talk) 16:00, 22 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.