Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Alan Forsyth

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete.  Sandstein  21:33, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Forsyth

Alan Forsyth (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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A prod was placed on this article on 17 February. Another editor removed it (which I did not notice until just now) on 24 February. A third editor re-added the prod on 25 February (which they should not have done per the Prod rules).On 25 February, after the original prod had expired (which I would not have done if I had checked the history), I decided that the prod was in order, though rather than delete I redirected the article to Alberta general election, 2012#Northern Alberta, where the person is listed as a candidate. A fourth editor undid the redirect today. In any event, this article is now at AfD, and I agree that it should be deleted: the person is an elected official, but not at a high enough level to meet WP:POLITICIAN. There are no sources which indicate anything special about this person beyond their position on a local council to merit general notability. Qwyrxian (talk) 12:07, 26 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also does not meet Wikipedia:Notability (sports)#Generally acceptable standards. Hwy43 (talk) 06:12, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: information has been added about awards in the BC Winter Games; however, as far as I can tell, those aren't sufficient to meet WP:ATHLETE, though I admit to not being an expert on athlete notability. If I can figure out how, I'll add this to the sports-related afd list so that maybe someone with an interest there can comment; if regulars who does specialize in WP:ATHLETE questions opine that these awards are sufficient...though I think we need some clear indication that the award winner is the same Alan Forsyth as the councilor. Lastly, though, Yaloe should note that the Council experience doesn't in any way contribute to notability, per WP:POLITICIAN. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:31, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Fix: sorry, it wasn't the BC Winter Games, it was some similarly named "Northern BC Winter Games", which is a chess festival, and given the hosting site there's no indication that it's anywhere near notable enough to qualify for WP:ATHLETE. The other event is equally non-notable (and also unsourced). Qwyrxian (talk) 07:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The "Northern BC Winter Games" is not "a chess festival" google search turned up website: http://www.bcgames.org/nbcwgs/ as it's top result. You can see the medal standings by region here: http://www.bcgames.net/results/results_n.aspx I note that Fraser Ft. George alone won 77 medals. This is a major sports event in B.C. Yaloe (talk) 02:16, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:34, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of British Columbia-related deletion discussions. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:38, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politics-related deletion discussions. Qwyrxian (talk) 03:38, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'll accept the Alberta government coverage as reliable, but the coverage is not significant (Forsyth is just listed as one of over 50 winners, with no detailed info). The other site is only borderline reliable, and it covers this Forsyth (note that there are 2 Forsyth's discussed there) in only a single sentence and a 5th place entry on the results table. So if you have some other sources, you'll need to provide them.Qwyrxian (talk) 07:15, 28 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

At the top of the page it says "top apprentice". each trade is a seperate category. "The Alberta Apprenticeship and Industry Training Board recognizes top apprentices in each trade. Recipients of these awards earned top marks and received exceptional employer recommendations. Top apprentices are invited to the annual board awards where we recognize their achievements and present them with their awards." So electricians across the province compete against other electrician's and each year have a chance to win the top spot in their trade (comparing apples to apples). The award only considers the marks in the final (and most challenging) year. Yaloe (talk) 02:41, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You misread the results table. The table is listed in order of chess rating on tournement entry. The totals are list in the "TOT" column on the right with 4 wins each for the top 3 finishers. Alan Forsyth's under 1500 rating put him alone with 4 pt.s in that category thus he got the Gold. the text of the article clearly states this : "The Open class winner was Bob (Pincher) Chapman of Smithers with 4/5. He filched the gold medal from Jason Danner (another local) by virtue of a superior tie-break after Alan Forsyth's shocking last round upset of Danner. Forsyth's victory capped an excellent 4/5 tally and secured him the gold medal in the Under-1500 category." You can also search the results http://www.bcgames.net/results/results_n.aspx by selecting SMITHERS2002 then checking RESULTS+INDIVIDUAL+FINAL then selecting sports CHESS event SENIOR B 0-1499 and clicking SUBMIT.
Yes, I did misread; sorry. I've fixed it back to being a gold medal. Note that it really doesn't matter, because winning a local sports award in what appears to be a fairly small competition is not in any way an indication of notability. Nor is receiving a "Top Apprenticeship" award from a state government. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:18, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He is not a mere local candidate, nor just a town councilor, he has served in civic politics in two different provinces. As a councilor in BC he even influenced Provincial Government policy. I saw the BC Minister of Forests listen carefully to his recommendations regarding the pine beetle epidemic and adopt many of them shortly after. It is a little challenging coming up citations for this stuff given that a lot of his service has been too early to have an internet trail, but I am doing what I can and adding content slowly. Anyway, I cast my vote for notability, and further I think if the criteria is even close it should be approved. There is a general election coming up very soon in Alberta and factual information is in the spirit of Wikipedia. Gussy Finknottle (talk) 04:12, 28 February 2012 (UTC)— Gussy Finknottle (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
Municipal councillors in places the size of High Level or New Hazelton are not notable; the only cities in Canada where a city councillor can legitimately claim notability just for being a city councillor are Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa (i.e. the major metropolitan cities.) Bearcat (talk) 20:29, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Redirect and userify/incubate Certainly it is true that candidates are not considered notable (at this level), and the significant coverage we need has not been found.

In the case of candidates for political office who do not meet this guideline, the general rule is to redirect to an appropriate page covering the election or political office sought in lieu of deletion. Relevant material from the biographical article can be merged into the election or political office page if appropriate

Rich Farmbrough, 10:20, 29 February 2012 (UTC).[reply]
I should clarify that as nom I definitely agree with leaving behind a redirect to the election page; that, in fact, was what I tried to do before but had it reverted, leaving AfD as a necessary procedural hoop. Qwyrxian (talk) 11:30, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree with leaving behind a redirect. However, if Alberta general election, 2012#Northern Alberta is the targeted redirect, note that adding content from the bio article to the target article is not appropriate given the structure of the target article. If redirected, what are the implications on the active wikilinks on other articles like High Level, Alberta? Unwikify or no harm leaving a wikilink to the redirect? Hwy43 (talk) 18:41, 29 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Any provincial or federal election is certainly allowed to have such lists if desired — whether anybody actually gets around to doing them or not is a different question, driven mainly by the fact that the editors who happen to be most insistent that we actually need such things in the first place are mostly based in Ontario, but there's no formal policy or practice that precludes their creation elsewhere. (For what it's worth, I don't particularly think we need them in Ontario or federally either, since if all the unsourced-BLP and formatting cleanup that the backlog requires were to be properly dealt with, then they wouldn't actually provide any useful information anymore that couldn't already be gleaned from the election articles themselves — seriously, just go ahead and try to convince me that Ontario New Democratic Party candidates, 2011 Ontario provincial election is actually useful in its current format, or that it can be made any more useful than it is without violating our WP:BLP1E and/or WP:RS rules — but cleaning them all up and/or sending them trashward is more work than I'm prepared to take on by myself.) Bearcat (talk) 20:23, 5 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, anybody who's elected to a state or provincial legislature is sufficiently notable for Wikipedia; there are no exceptions. And YMVV, I suppose, but I'm not particularly willing at this point to definitively bet one way or the other on the electoral prospects of a Wildrose candidate Bearcat (talk) 06:10, 9 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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