User talk:Arilang1234/Archive 3
公即為漢傢傳人,華夏子民,孫先生擁護者, 何不思光復華夏文明,反認同蒙元滿清為中國耶? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 03:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- A translation, for the sake of transparency (nothing against you Arilang: I know you didn't write this):
“ | You are a child of the Huaxia people and a supporter of Mr. Sun Yat-sen: why not consider restoring Huaxia civilization by objecting to recognizing the Mongol Yuan Dynasty and the Manchu Qing Dynasty as "China"? | ” |
- This message was written in classical Chinese to make it more difficult to read for machines or for those whose Chinese is not so good. Anyway, this kind of political motivation for editing would clash directly with the spirit of Wikipedia. Sincere cheers to you, Arilang, for not falling for it. Madalibi (talk) 03:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks for you complimentary comment Madalibi. Well, according to Hua-Yi distinction, we really have no choice. My argument is, if we reject Mongols and Manchus, and kick them out of the Chinese formula, we should then also kick Tang Dynasty out, because of their Xianpei stock, kick Ming Dynasty out, because they were a bunch of Hui muslim. What have we got left? Arilang talk 06:54, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Actually, I DO generally disagree with people who say that the Yuan and Qing dynasties were "China" in the same sense as the Han, Tang, Song, or Ming. The Qing, for example, was much more of a multi-ethnic empire than the Ming, because Manchu rulers governed large regions of their empire in clearly different ways. And depending who they were talking to, the Qing emperors were also Khans of the Mongols, reincarnations of Buddhas, etc. I just don't take this kind of observation in the spirit of "restoring Chinese civilization to its lost grandeur," as the anonymous poster seemed to imply. I wish I had time to integrate all these views on the Qing dynasty wiki... Anyway, talk to you later! Madalibi (talk) 08:04, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- There's no proof that zhu yuanzhang was a muslims, stop slandering people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.136.147 (talk) 22:12, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- THe mongol and manchu rulers had no chinese blood. Tang emperors did and so did ming. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.83.136.147 (talk) 22:14, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Arilang, you said Tang's emperors are Xianbei origin, it's not totally true. I know Li Shiming has Xianbei blood, but only one of his ancestors was Xianbei, and was a matriachal ancestor. okay, if Li Shimin's mother is Xianbei, he is 1/2 xianbei, is his grand-mother is xianbei, li is 1/4 xianbei, 1/8.1/16 and so on. So, li's xianbei origin is minim. You know, a ethnic origin is marked on Y chromosome, so we herited our ethnic origin from our father. Li's father is Han, so in theory, Li is a Han. And you can see Li speak Han language, wear Hanfu, have Han customs... All this told us that we can consider Li is a Han, not really Xianbei.
Zhu Yuanzhang, the first emperor of Ming, is a real Han, not Hui muslim. Zhu is Hui, is only a rumour, certain persons told this because only Zhu has constructed some muslim 'churches' for Hui peoples, according to this logic, you can also say Zhu is a european, because he has also constructed some catholic churches pour europeans who came to China!
I'm a Han, and I'm often disappointed and frustreted when I see some chinese of other ethnic groups
insulted Han people by using violent actions and nasty words, and the most of Han don't rebut them. And the gouverment traits us as second-rank people, just because we are numerous. And some Han don't know the real history, they said like, 'our hero Gengis Khan is a great king, blabla...' They ignore that Gengis khan killed so many innocent Han people! I'm not against mongols who like their heros, but for us, he's only a atrocious butcher. And in the history books used by school, they said almost all that mongols et manchus invaders are our heros, and Yue Fei is a flunky who disturbed relations between peoples! Whose fault, dusting the eyes of ignorant Han? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 01:52, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I wish you could understand my explanations. (oh, my poor english) 67.204.2.166 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.204.2.166 (talk) 01:33, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- My answer is please read Hua-Yi distinction, that is all I can say Arilang talk 01:59, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Archives
Fixed it a bit for you. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 10:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks again. Arilang talk 10:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Hu Jintao is A LOT Better than Wang Mang
- Hu and others were able to handle the 2008 Sichuan earthquake situation fairly well (although it revealed corruption such as many buildings not being built according to professional standards and thus collapsed). Compare this to Wang Mang's inability to handle the crisis of the flooding of the Yellow River. However, he shouldn't be entirely blamed for this, since he did make efforts to dam the river. In any case, thanks for giving me the link to the article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks to Teen and PoA, it is a very common practice among Chinese historians to compare contemporary rulers with historical rulers, and of course, no rulers would be happy when their names were put alongside killers or mass murderers, which is what Wang Mangs name conveyed. Chinese like to classify the rulers as 仁君 or 暴君, my impression on Wang Mang 王莽 is that he was a killer, a 暴君, am I correct in saying so? Have to sign off for now. Arilang talk 23:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Wang Mang was not a 暴君. He was a reformer who wanted to restore feudalism of Zhou dynasty. He failed and was kicked out by baixing who restored Han.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:23, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Wang Mang on Baidu Baike王莽还想借对外战争来缓和国内的矛眉,这一来又引起了匈奴、西域、西南各部族的反对。王莽又征用民夫,加重捐税,纵容残酷的官吏,对老百姓加重刑罚。这样,就逼得农民不得不起来反抗。
- 从历史的惯性来说,胡温之后很可能出现王莽类型的乱世:随着中央权威因丧失公义而衰落,各路想当皇帝的人就会陆续粉末登场,于是中国进入轮回的乱世. I kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people .
- The Boxun article using Wang Mang to compare Hu/Wen government, seem to imply that China may be facing popular uprising from the Baixing
- 由于他看不起边疆藩属,削王为侯,不断挑起对匈奴和东北、西南各族的战争。
In the light of the most recent USA ocean survey ship incident, when Chinese fishing vessels were harassing unarmed USA ships, seems to reflect 借对外战争来缓和国内的矛盾, meaning creating international crisis to cover up domestic troubles, is the real reason and motive behind this Boxun article. May be we shall be seeing a more aggressive China in the near future? Arilang talk 12:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I doubt it VERY HEAVILY. If anything, its more likely the US Empire will crumble than the Chinese. Hu/Wen are able rulers. Under them and their successors, following Deng's path, China will eventually be restored to her ancient glory. You may not like the CPC of Mao, but I can assure you the CPC Of Deng is 100X better. Also, note China is the least aggressive of the great powers.Teeninvestor (talk)
- Oh ya, and you need to go to some neutral forums. Boxun.com is not neutral. In fact, I suspect they may be funded by the US(aka dissidents).Teeninvestor (talk) 20:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people."
At least China isn't in a deflationary spiral + hyperinflation, like much of the west will soon be in. Complaints aside, no Chinese today would think of bearing arms against the government.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD | —Talk contribs 11:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Issues with the CPCJust wondering what issues do you have with the current CPC that you think are so bad that the CPC will collapse later????
Deng's reforms have improved Chinese lives in this way:
1. China now has the biggest industrial sector in the world. China produces the most ships, cars, steel, and others.
2. Chinese are more prosperous than ever before. Average wage has risen 24k Yuan, inflation is under control.
3. Hu/Wen government has introduced reforms to help the people(Some of which I didn't like very much, but we'll get to that point).
So what's the problem???? Teeninvestor (talk) 20:58, 13 Marc亦h 2009 (UTC)
- the problem is that the stupid CCP bulldozed the entrances to beijing's underground bunkers, and refuses to build further bunkers and fortifications to protect the chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
You are too young185px|thumb|I believe that many CPC CEO have secret agenda, not unlike that of Dr. Fu Manchu
- You may have done a lot of research works on Han, Tang, Song, Yuan history, but how much history of the CPC you have read? The current form of government is a mutant(a mix of Oriental and West), because the real functioning is inside a black box, the decision makers, or CEO, are a bunch of mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu kind of characters. How much do we know of Hu Jintao? Wen Jiabao? Xi Jinping? How much do we know of 太子党? 古語:水能載舟,亦能覆舟, if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣?
- Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality. Back in the ancient time, the whole world went to China to study, to learn, to clone it's system. Now, Teen, you tell me, what has China got to offer to the world? Secret police? Nuclear bombs? Corrupted officials? Polluted air, water, and soil? Millions and millions of workers who are paid US$ 10 per month? poison milk?dead students? The list is very long. Arilang talk 22:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
China has a lot to offer the world. The world'd biggest factory????? China produces steel, cars, ships, planes, and other things for the world. The world loves CHinese products. That's why they're produced everywhere.
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- And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable.
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- "#Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality."
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- And you tell me the US, who is going bankrupt and going to hyperinflation on a bullet, has that quality of "world leader". The country who has subsidized its industries for 30 years, whose bullets reduce millions of souls to earth, has that "quality".
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- And besides, with the way CPC is going, China wont have this form of government in 10-20 years. CPC has already allowed elections at county level, and county comissars now directly elect city comissars, and so on. There are some very encouraging developments.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- "if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣? "
I can assure CPC is not nearly as hated as you think. Minyuen is hated much more, for selling out China.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo. Arilang talk 11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Not taking any sides but in regards to this - "And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable." Most (not all) things are made in China because they are cheap and fast but what happens when their wages start to rise say at an exponential rate? You can only devalue the yuan so much as well. What happens when said workers start to demand benefits and other worker privileges, as their standard of living increases so do their expectations. This really is a curious question on my behalf.
Please answer my questions one by oneTeen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one:
- Secret police?
- Nuclear bombs?
- Corrupted officials?
- Polluted air, water, and soil?
- poison milk?
- dead students?
- Black kiln slaves?
- Illegal harvesting of body organs?
- Why put Hu Jia in jail?
Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that? Arilang talk 22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.
Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.
Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!!
"Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]"
This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.
"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation. Arilang talk 01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.
- KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
- The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
- The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
- KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
- CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
- After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
- Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
- KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
- "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
- Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.
Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.
My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
- 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer. Arilang talk 13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years.
Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC.
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it.
1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT.
IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. Arilang talk 03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Hu and others were able to handle the 2008 Sichuan earthquake situation fairly well (although it revealed corruption such as many buildings not being built according to professional standards and thus collapsed). Compare this to Wang Mang's inability to handle the crisis of the flooding of the Yellow River. However, he shouldn't be entirely blamed for this, since he did make efforts to dam the river. In any case, thanks for giving me the link to the article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks to Teen and PoA, it is a very common practice among Chinese historians to compare contemporary rulers with historical rulers, and of course, no rulers would be happy when their names were put alongside killers or mass murderers, which is what Wang Mangs name conveyed. Chinese like to classify the rulers as 仁君 or 暴君, my impression on Wang Mang 王莽 is that he was a killer, a 暴君, am I correct in saying so? Have to sign off for now. Arilang talk 23:49, 11 March 2009 (UTC)
Wang Mang on Baidu Baike王莽还想借对外战争来缓和国内的矛眉,这一来又引起了匈奴、西域、西南各部族的反对。王莽又征用民夫,加重捐税,纵容残酷的官吏,对老百姓加重刑罚。这样,就逼得农民不得不起来反抗。
- 从历史的惯性来说,胡温之后很可能出现王莽类型的乱世:随着中央权威因丧失公义而衰落,各路想当皇帝的人就会陆续粉末登场,于是中国进入轮回的乱世. I kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people .
- The Boxun article using Wang Mang to compare Hu/Wen government, seem to imply that China may be facing popular uprising from the Baixing
- 由于他看不起边疆藩属,削王为侯,不断挑起对匈奴和东北、西南各族的战争。
In the light of the most recent USA ocean survey ship incident, when Chinese fishing vessels were harassing unarmed USA ships, seems to reflect 借对外战争来缓和国内的矛盾, meaning creating international crisis to cover up domestic troubles, is the real reason and motive behind this Boxun article. May be we shall be seeing a more aggressive China in the near future? Arilang talk 12:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I doubt it VERY HEAVILY. If anything, its more likely the US Empire will crumble than the Chinese. Hu/Wen are able rulers. Under them and their successors, following Deng's path, China will eventually be restored to her ancient glory. You may not like the CPC of Mao, but I can assure you the CPC Of Deng is 100X better. Also, note China is the least aggressive of the great powers.Teeninvestor (talk)
- Oh ya, and you need to go to some neutral forums. Boxun.com is not neutral. In fact, I suspect they may be funded by the US(aka dissidents).Teeninvestor (talk) 20:27, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
"kind of agree with this comment, beside using para-military police to squash all the anti-government protests, the Hu/Wen government do not know how to deal with the people."
At least China isn't in a deflationary spiral + hyperinflation, like much of the west will soon be in. Complaints aside, no Chinese today would think of bearing arms against the government.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:46, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD | —Talk contribs 11:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Issues with the CPCJust wondering what issues do you have with the current CPC that you think are so bad that the CPC will collapse later????
Deng's reforms have improved Chinese lives in this way:
1. China now has the biggest industrial sector in the world. China produces the most ships, cars, steel, and others.
2. Chinese are more prosperous than ever before. Average wage has risen 24k Yuan, inflation is under control.
3. Hu/Wen government has introduced reforms to help the people(Some of which I didn't like very much, but we'll get to that point).
So what's the problem???? Teeninvestor (talk) 20:58, 13 Marc亦h 2009 (UTC)
- the problem is that the stupid CCP bulldozed the entrances to beijing's underground bunkers, and refuses to build further bunkers and fortifications to protect the chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
You are too young185px|thumb|I believe that many CPC CEO have secret agenda, not unlike that of Dr. Fu Manchu
- You may have done a lot of research works on Han, Tang, Song, Yuan history, but how much history of the CPC you have read? The current form of government is a mutant(a mix of Oriental and West), because the real functioning is inside a black box, the decision makers, or CEO, are a bunch of mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu kind of characters. How much do we know of Hu Jintao? Wen Jiabao? Xi Jinping? How much do we know of 太子党? 古語:水能載舟,亦能覆舟, if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣?
- Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality. Back in the ancient time, the whole world went to China to study, to learn, to clone it's system. Now, Teen, you tell me, what has China got to offer to the world? Secret police? Nuclear bombs? Corrupted officials? Polluted air, water, and soil? Millions and millions of workers who are paid US$ 10 per month? poison milk?dead students? The list is very long. Arilang talk 22:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
China has a lot to offer the world. The world'd biggest factory????? China produces steel, cars, ships, planes, and other things for the world. The world loves CHinese products. That's why they're produced everywhere.
-
- And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable.
-
- "#Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality."
-
- And you tell me the US, who is going bankrupt and going to hyperinflation on a bullet, has that quality of "world leader". The country who has subsidized its industries for 30 years, whose bullets reduce millions of souls to earth, has that "quality".
-
- And besides, with the way CPC is going, China wont have this form of government in 10-20 years. CPC has already allowed elections at county level, and county comissars now directly elect city comissars, and so on. There are some very encouraging developments.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- "if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣? "
I can assure CPC is not nearly as hated as you think. Minyuen is hated much more, for selling out China.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo. Arilang talk 11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Not taking any sides but in regards to this - "And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable." Most (not all) things are made in China because they are cheap and fast but what happens when their wages start to rise say at an exponential rate? You can only devalue the yuan so much as well. What happens when said workers start to demand benefits and other worker privileges, as their standard of living increases so do their expectations. This really is a curious question on my behalf.
Please answer my questions one by oneTeen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one:
- Secret police?
- Nuclear bombs?
- Corrupted officials?
- Polluted air, water, and soil?
- poison milk?
- dead students?
- Black kiln slaves?
- Illegal harvesting of body organs?
- Why put Hu Jia in jail?
Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that? Arilang talk 22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.
Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.
Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!!
"Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]"
This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.
"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation. Arilang talk 01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.
- KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
- The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
- The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
- KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
- CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
- After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
- Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
- KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
- "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
- Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.
Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.
My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
- 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer. Arilang talk 13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years.
Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC.
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it.
1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT.
IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. Arilang talk 03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
AfD | —Talk contribs 11:37, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Issues with the CPCJust wondering what issues do you have with the current CPC that you think are so bad that the CPC will collapse later????
Deng's reforms have improved Chinese lives in this way:
1. China now has the biggest industrial sector in the world. China produces the most ships, cars, steel, and others.
2. Chinese are more prosperous than ever before. Average wage has risen 24k Yuan, inflation is under control.
3. Hu/Wen government has introduced reforms to help the people(Some of which I didn't like very much, but we'll get to that point).
So what's the problem???? Teeninvestor (talk) 20:58, 13 Marc亦h 2009 (UTC)
- the problem is that the stupid CCP bulldozed the entrances to beijing's underground bunkers, and refuses to build further bunkers and fortifications to protect the chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
You are too young185px|thumb|I believe that many CPC CEO have secret agenda, not unlike that of Dr. Fu Manchu
- You may have done a lot of research works on Han, Tang, Song, Yuan history, but how much history of the CPC you have read? The current form of government is a mutant(a mix of Oriental and West), because the real functioning is inside a black box, the decision makers, or CEO, are a bunch of mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu kind of characters. How much do we know of Hu Jintao? Wen Jiabao? Xi Jinping? How much do we know of 太子党? 古語:水能載舟,亦能覆舟, if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣?
- Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality. Back in the ancient time, the whole world went to China to study, to learn, to clone it's system. Now, Teen, you tell me, what has China got to offer to the world? Secret police? Nuclear bombs? Corrupted officials? Polluted air, water, and soil? Millions and millions of workers who are paid US$ 10 per month? poison milk?dead students? The list is very long. Arilang talk 22:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
China has a lot to offer the world. The world'd biggest factory????? China produces steel, cars, ships, planes, and other things for the world. The world loves CHinese products. That's why they're produced everywhere.
-
- And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable.
-
- "#Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality."
-
- And you tell me the US, who is going bankrupt and going to hyperinflation on a bullet, has that quality of "world leader". The country who has subsidized its industries for 30 years, whose bullets reduce millions of souls to earth, has that "quality".
-
- And besides, with the way CPC is going, China wont have this form of government in 10-20 years. CPC has already allowed elections at county level, and county comissars now directly elect city comissars, and so on. There are some very encouraging developments.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- "if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣? "
I can assure CPC is not nearly as hated as you think. Minyuen is hated much more, for selling out China.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo. Arilang talk 11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Not taking any sides but in regards to this - "And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable." Most (not all) things are made in China because they are cheap and fast but what happens when their wages start to rise say at an exponential rate? You can only devalue the yuan so much as well. What happens when said workers start to demand benefits and other worker privileges, as their standard of living increases so do their expectations. This really is a curious question on my behalf.
Please answer my questions one by oneTeen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one:
- Secret police?
- Nuclear bombs?
- Corrupted officials?
- Polluted air, water, and soil?
- poison milk?
- dead students?
- Black kiln slaves?
- Illegal harvesting of body organs?
- Why put Hu Jia in jail?
Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that? Arilang talk 22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.
Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.
Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!!
"Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]"
This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.
"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation. Arilang talk 01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.
- KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
- The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
- The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
- KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
- CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
- After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
- Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
- KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
- "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
- Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.
Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.
My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
- 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer. Arilang talk 13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years.
Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC.
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it.
1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT.
IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. Arilang talk 03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Issues with the CPCJust wondering what issues do you have with the current CPC that you think are so bad that the CPC will collapse later????
Deng's reforms have improved Chinese lives in this way: 1. China now has the biggest industrial sector in the world. China produces the most ships, cars, steel, and others. 2. Chinese are more prosperous than ever before. Average wage has risen 24k Yuan, inflation is under control. 3. Hu/Wen government has introduced reforms to help the people(Some of which I didn't like very much, but we'll get to that point).
So what's the problem???? Teeninvestor (talk) 20:58, 13 Marc亦h 2009 (UTC)
- the problem is that the stupid CCP bulldozed the entrances to beijing's underground bunkers, and refuses to build further bunkers and fortifications to protect the chinese people —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:45, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
You are too young185px|thumb|I believe that many CPC CEO have secret agenda, not unlike that of Dr. Fu Manchu
- You may have done a lot of research works on Han, Tang, Song, Yuan history, but how much history of the CPC you have read? The current form of government is a mutant(a mix of Oriental and West), because the real functioning is inside a black box, the decision makers, or CEO, are a bunch of mysterious Dr. Fu Manchu kind of characters. How much do we know of Hu Jintao? Wen Jiabao? Xi Jinping? How much do we know of 太子党? 古語:水能載舟,亦能覆舟, if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣?
- Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality. Back in the ancient time, the whole world went to China to study, to learn, to clone it's system. Now, Teen, you tell me, what has China got to offer to the world? Secret police? Nuclear bombs? Corrupted officials? Polluted air, water, and soil? Millions and millions of workers who are paid US$ 10 per month? poison milk?dead students? The list is very long. Arilang talk 22:06, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
China has a lot to offer the world. The world'd biggest factory????? China produces steel, cars, ships, planes, and other things for the world. The world loves CHinese products. That's why they're produced everywhere.
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- And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable.
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- "#Under the present form of government, China will never reach Han/Tang glory, because China is lack of Soft Power, because none of it's core,核心, or CEO, are of world leader quality."
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- And you tell me the US, who is going bankrupt and going to hyperinflation on a bullet, has that quality of "world leader". The country who has subsidized its industries for 30 years, whose bullets reduce millions of souls to earth, has that "quality".
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- And besides, with the way CPC is going, China wont have this form of government in 10-20 years. CPC has already allowed elections at county level, and county comissars now directly elect city comissars, and so on. There are some very encouraging developments.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- "if a regime is hated and fear by it's Baixing, and only use para-military to squash any kind of protest, what will happen if Baixing begin to act like 陳胜吳廣? "
I can assure CPC is not nearly as hated as you think. Minyuen is hated much more, for selling out China.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo. Arilang talk 11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
- Not taking any sides but in regards to this - "And no you cannot get workers in China for $10 USD per month. The average wage for rural workers in China is about 20,000 yuan which is about 3300 USD per year. That's more than 200 USD per month. That's not a lot, but its respectable." Most (not all) things are made in China because they are cheap and fast but what happens when their wages start to rise say at an exponential rate? You can only devalue the yuan so much as well. What happens when said workers start to demand benefits and other worker privileges, as their standard of living increases so do their expectations. This really is a curious question on my behalf.
Please answer my questions one by oneTeen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one:
- Secret police?
- Nuclear bombs?
- Corrupted officials?
- Polluted air, water, and soil?
- poison milk?
- dead students?
- Black kiln slaves?
- Illegal harvesting of body organs?
- Why put Hu Jia in jail?
Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that? Arilang talk 22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.
Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.
Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!!
"Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]"
This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.
"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation. Arilang talk 01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.
- KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
- The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
- The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
- KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
- CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
- After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
- Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
- KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
- "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
- Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.
Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.
My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
- 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer. Arilang talk 13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years.
Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC.
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it.
1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT.
IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. Arilang talk 03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Arilang, without nuclear bombs, russia and india will find it easy to bully china. and its exactly why hu jintao is so weak of a leader, that he has TOO MUCH soft power and not enough "hard power". even with nukes, the way jiang zemin folded to the russians show how easily they can be bullied. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 23:32, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- @ user 162.84.129.45, you make me laugh! Just look at New Star ship incident, in front of Russians, all the Chinese leaders act like little children, or to be precise, like small pussy cats, mieo mieo mieo. Arilang talk 11:02, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
Please answer my questions one by oneTeen, I still say your China impression is extremely one-sided, or POV, to borrow a wiki term. Now I shall list my questions one by one:
- Secret police?
- Nuclear bombs?
- Corrupted officials?
- Polluted air, water, and soil?
- poison milk?
- dead students?
- Black kiln slaves?
- Illegal harvesting of body organs?
- Why put Hu Jia in jail?
Teen, to convince me, or to win me over, you need to present a reasonable answer to all of the above questions. Can you do that? Arilang talk 22:38, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
3-7 is the natural development of capitalism. Evolving a country from agarian roots to industrial superpower is no piece of cake. And besides, most of these are getting better, not worse. West had it worse during their development, I assure.
Hu Jia/secret police is also a natural development. Chinese government's first priority is to maintain order- many countries have collapsed during the transition.
Hu Jia I have no sympthay for. You can complain, but don't collude with foreigners!!!!
"Using a web camera, Hu participated in a European parliamentary hearing in Brussels in November 2007 about human rights in China. At the hearing he said: “It is ironic that one of the people in charge of organizing the Olympic Games is the head of the Bureau of Public Security, which is responsible for so many human rights violations. It is very serious that the official promises are not being kept before the games.”[3]"
This guy is being a propanganda tool by the Western countries, AGAINST China.
"# Illegal harvesting of body organs?" BS. That is FLG propanganda.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC has heavy corruption, but I would argue Late Han, Tang, and Ming were just as corrupt. Remember, none of these dynasties had to deal with the problem that the HUA XIA WERE ACTUALLY BACKWARDS FOR ONCE. Also remember CPC may be corrupt, but so is the west; all their politicians are funded by "campaign contributions" which is just legalized bribery in my opinion. I mean look at GWB and Enron.Also, you forgot Ming was a golden era as well. Anyways, my opinion is that DEVELOPMENT IS RELATIVE. Look at western history from 1800 to 1900 and you will know what I am talking about. The west sure didn't have any qualms in doing things CPC would be overthrown for.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Also, you forget one thing. PRC IS THE ONLY CHANCE CHINA HAS OF REVIVING ITSELF. The last 150-ish years, 350 if you count Manchu Qing dynasty, have been one of the most darkest eras in Chinese history. Only the PRC can take China out of this period. And right now if CPC can survive the challenge of holding a country together, they will be positioned perfectly to overtake other countries after this depression. For the sake of the Huaxia, I would support the PRC.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:56, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
I think you are wrong, Teen. CCP do not have the 天命 Mandate of Heaven anymore, soon will be game over. From historical point of view, PRC is 苛政, or 暴政. and soon there will be 官逼民反, there is noway that this PRC shall last very long in its present formation. Arilang talk 01:28, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Ahh... sorry to butt in and be all rude... couldn't help but to make a statement. Regarding corruption, back during the 1931-1949 era, the KMT was just as corrupt. I personally view that both the CCP and KMT are neither "the perfect party", however the CCP was the lesser of two evils, to a point. Before the end of the Civil War, the KMT was so corrupt that even Truman had trouble trusting Chiang Kai Shek.
- KMT did little to fight against the invading Japanese. They were more worried in killing communists. They could not place all their effort on the war with Japan; while some generals fought the Imperial Japanese, others openly avoided combat, to "sell space for time", hoping that the Allies would finish Japan so that there were enough men to fight the CCP.
- The Communists engaged in guerilla warfare against the KMT and Japanese, and did so well, that some US generals questioned the strength of the KMT. The US saw that corrupt KMT officials were selling US-donated weaponry on the black market.
- The modern view on "reds" and "commies" is due to McCarthyism, this plays a major factor in all our points of view.
- KMT was supported by the rich, so they helped the rich.
- CCP introduced Land reform, industrialization measures, reunified China and shot the landlords to their graves, and treated their troops with respect. The KMT army was made of conscripts who were poorly treated and beaten by their officers. The CCP did not maltreat the peasants like the KMT.
- After nationwide control, yes, there was the Great Leap Forward, and the Cultural Revolution. This was only because of one thing: Mao. Now, I never said that all Chinese loved Mao, did I?
- Chiang was a dictator, was he not? The ROC only obtained democracy in the early 1990s, and that was in TAIWAN only.
- KMT was corrupt - during WW2, for every 10 million USD of aid given to purchase weapons from the US, only one million made it into the army as proper weapons. Officers pocketed the money for themselves.
- "Red" China is now open, rich, and prosperous, is it not? 2nd largest GDP (PPP) in the world, is it not? This is all thanks to the venerable Deng Xiaoping.
- Think about it. If Sun Yat-Sen were alive today, would he rather see a dictatorship under Chiang? I'd doubt that, if the KMT had won the war, that Greater China would be democratic today. Taiwan is small and naturally rich, it would be much more difficult even for the KMT after 100 or even 200 years to introduce democracy in all of China. There is a vast countryside of poverty. With poverty comes hardship, with hardship comes corruption. With area comes military might.
Had Chiang Kai-shek actually fulfilled the San-Min Zhu-Yi (Three Principles of the People)? No. People still lived in poverty. The KMT had the support of the upper class, why should they help the poor? They opposed the CCP becuase they promised land reform for the peasants. Overall, the evils of the KMT outweigh the evils of the CCP. Sure, neither were good, but can you honestly say the KMT were better? They did not reunify China. They gave autonomy to the warlords. The CCP shot all the landlords, on the other hand. The CCP did not introduce democracy, but neither did the KMT. Chiang's regime was still a dictatorship.
What happened later, on the other hand, was the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution, which completely ruined China. However this happened much afterwards, after the era of KMT/CCP struggle. Not forgetting the White Terrors of the KMT on Taiwan, such as the 228 Incident, the KMT still clung to their authoritarian ways.
My conclusion: The death of Sun Yat-sen resulted in the harsh reign of Chiang Kai-shek, destroying the people of China. The rule of Mao over the CCP caused economic and social destruction. If Sun had never died, China probably would have never been on its knees as a Republic. Probably. Sun Yat Sen loved China, we can all see that, for he wrote the San Min Zhu Yi and was concerned with the plight of the people. Chiang didn't give a damn about the people, Mao never gave a damn about proper governance. Now, regarding the modern era, can you honestly state that you are absolutely sure that the KMT would do a better job? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 12:46, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, I think it is wrong to talk about what if, it is useless, and pointless, since nobody can go back in time and wind back the clock. That said, we should all look to the future, and try to guess what future historians might write about 21 century Chinese history, and try to guess what kind of yard sticks, or norm, the future historians might use. For me, if I am still alive, say 100 years from now, I would use 孟子 as my norm, my yard stick.
- 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 Translation:Baixing is paramount, is top; the country, or the society, come second; rulers, King or emperor, come last. If I am to put forward this question to Hu/Wen during their internet video chat, I seriously doubt that I would get an answer. Arilang talk 13:34, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years.
Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC.
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it.
1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT.
IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
贫贱不能移 Translation:When I am down and out, I would still keep my principle.
威武不能屈 Translation:When I am facing brute force, I would not bend down and kiss ass. Arilang talk 03:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC) 王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
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- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Teen, your answers are not specific enough, or rather, your answers cannot be called answer, because you are simply avoiding a main issue. What is the main issue? The main issue here still is the relationship between Rulers and the ruled 君 and 民, or 君民关係. In the past,there were very few 仁君, when 仁君 came along, then there was 天下太平 peace under the heaven, everybody happy, because the rulers were 愛民如子. The opposite is 暴君, whose policy is 暴政, they treated people as 草民,蚁民,賤民, and you and me know that, 暴君 would most often got overthrown by the revolting Baixing, if not, they normally would have a lot of ugly words associated with them in the book of history. In fact, Wen Jiabao openly said a few times, he would like to go down in history as a 清官, as is apparent in his quoting of poem:春?到死絲方儘, 蠟燭成灰淚始乾. But no matter how hard he tried, there are accusing fingers pointing at his wife and his son(who were reputed to have changed his name to avoid being detected as Wen's son). Teen, nearly all the communist government officials are heavily corrupted, including the sons of Hu/Wen. This is unprecedented and unheard of in all the Tang, Yuan, Ming Qing history. PRC government would have to be ranked the most corrupted government in the world. PRC officials are like clowns and stooges standing in front of Han/Tang golden eras. Arilang talk 00:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
name one period in last 350 years better than current period & one leader better than deng xiaopingArilang, Name ONCE in the past 350 years of Chinese history that is better than now. Name ONCE. NAME ONE RULER THAT WAS BETTER THAN DENG in the last 350 years. Tell me Who will overthrow the CPC???? The workers whose wages rise day by day??? the capitalists who just earned their wealth due to CPC???? the students whose education is subsidized by the CPC???. NO CHINESE, IN HIS SANE MIND, would choose an american-dominated Mingyuen government over the CPC! Unless you want to hand all of China's freedom and wealth to the anglo-saxons, go ahead, try to overthrow the CPC. Thanks to Deng Xiaoping, CHina is now a major power and back to recovery. That is supported by every worthy Chinese. The first duty of every Chinese as a citizen is to hope for the motherland.
As to KMT's point I believe Chiang might have ruled better but since CPC won, we should stick with it. Under the venerable Deng Xiaoping, CPC has changed to a good government(compared to Manchu, Republic, and Mao).Teeninvestor (talk) 23:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
Heart of iron and stone
@Teen, when I was listening to this song, tears just would not stop surging out, possibly this is the saddest, and hopeless song I ever heard, so I decided to do a translation. You know what, I could not stop weeping while I was working on it. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
A popular Chinese folk singer (周雲蓬) has compiled a list of Chinese man-made disasters and turned it into a song, and the Karamay fire incident was mentioned in the song, so was the internet catch phrase: 讓領導先走 (translit. Let the leaders walk out first.)
不要做中國人的孩子
不要做克拉瑪依的孩子,火燒痛皮膚讓親娘心焦
不要做沙蘭鎮的孩子,水底下漆黑他睡不著
不要做成都人的孩子,吸毒的媽媽七天七夜不回家
不要做河南人的孩子,愛滋病在血液裡哈哈的笑
不要做山西人的孩子,爸爸變成了一筐煤,你別再想見到他
不要做中國人的孩子,餓極了他們會把你吃掉
還不如曠野中的老山羊,為保護小羊而目露兇光
不要做中國人的孩子,爸爸媽媽都是些怯懦的人
為證明他們的鐵石心腸,死到臨頭讓領導先走
English translation:
Don't want to be Chinese's children
Don't want to be the children of Karamay, the fire that burn their skin also scorch mother's heart
Don't want to be Salan town's children, under the water so dark, he can't sleep
Don't want to be the children of Chendu, drug addicted mother seven days seven nights no come home
Don't want to be Henanese's chidren, HIV virus is laughing HaHaHa in his blood
Don't want to be Shanxi's children, father's body is covered by black coal dust
Don't want to be Chinese's children, you will be turned into food during famine
Even old goats in the wild, will send eyes of staggers when their young were being hurt
Don't want to be Chinese's children, Papa Mama are a bunch of cowards
With heart made of iron and stone, shouting let the leaders walk out first when their children were burnt alive.
In Chinese:盲人歌手周雲蓬《不要做中國人的孩子》Translation:Chinese folk song:Don't want to be Chinese's children
The west went through the same thing durign development
Arilang1234, I think your fundamental problem is that you don't realize all comparisons are RELATIVE. YES PRIMITIVE ACCUMULATION OF CAPITALISM IS BAD. BUT EVERYONE HAS TO GO THROUGH IT. IT is like you have cancer. You don't want to go through chemotherpay. But you have to, or else you die. Which one is better????Teeninvestor (talk) 23:35, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
- Teen, please cool down, you seems to be working for the China Ministry of propanganda. What is wrong with you?
- Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources
- Wiki editors should stick to NPOV
- Wiki editors should be like zh:司馬遷
- 《孟子·滕文公下》:富貴不能淫,貧賤不能移,威武不能屈,此之謂大丈夫, Teen, I may not be 大丈夫, but at least I would try to be one.
- 战国时代的孟子,有几句很好的话:“富贵不能淫,贫贱不能移,威武不能屈,此之谓大丈夫。”意思是说,高官厚禄收买不了,贫穷困苦折磨不了,强暴武力威胁 不了,这就是所谓大丈夫。大丈夫的这种种行为,表现出了英雄气概,我们今天就叫做有骨气。http://zhidao.baidu.com /question/15926049.html
Arilang talk 01:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
For readers who cannot read Chinese富贵不能淫 Translation:When I am rich and famous, I would still keep my conduct clean.
王何必曰利?亦有仁義而已矣。《孟子》 梁惠王章句上·第一章 孟子见梁惠王。 王曰,「叟,不远千里而来,亦将有以利吾国乎?」 孟子对曰,「王何必曰利?亦有仁义而已矣。」
@Teen, I know you are angry, but you need to cool down first. 仁義道德 is the fundamental of any Han Chinese society. When Chinese society disregard 仁義道德, according to Hua-Yi distinction, the whole society would become Barbarian, the obvious explanation is that Chinese society is not governed by Rule of law, because Chinese society do not have Ten Commandments, until the Han Chinese culture incorporate the western idea Rule of law into it's core value, Chinese society would simply turn into a barbarian society, regardless of who the rulers were, CCP or KMT, or even the Pope of Vetican, is of no use. I am not particularly pro-KMT or pro-CCP, I am using 仁義道德 as a yardstick, as simple as that. Arilang talk 04:07, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
CPC Propanganda???
仁義道德 & rule of law is much more respected in China than west. Yes, invading Iraq is rule of law. Taking the Americas/killing all of its population is rule of law. Shipping OPIUM to China is rule of law. Burning all Roman books(Christianity's greatest feat) is rule of law. As far as I can see, Westerners need rule of law just as much, if not more. YOu still haven't answered my question. What will replace CPC???? Will China not be world superpower, when it has largest GDP & most competitive industries??? Is that not what China is aiming for???? Basically, what part of China as of now is worse than West was during the industrial revolution???Teeninvestor (talk) 15:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Wiki editors are here to record verifiable sources Wiki editors should stick to NPOV " Exactly. Then please show me why you think rule of law & ten commandants is more beneficial to Chinese& Chinese are now "barbarians".Teeninvestor (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Love for the PRC does not necessarily equate to love for the CCP. One can support China and not be a communist. Personally, my heritage is from Beijing. I am usually seen as the "typical Northerner", I've come across southerners complaining about my Northeastern accent. Northerners are stereotypically loud, aggressive, and, for some reason, stereotypically communist. In the eyes of many Hongkongers that is all we are, however, I never stated that I was a "red" in the first place (I am not, anyway). I don't see that supporting the PRC instantly makes you a cheerleader or a propaganda machine of communism. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs 05:17, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Should put PRC, Qing Dynasty Ming, Song, Yuan on the same platformTeen, I know the West had done heaps of terrible things to others, but it is a very poor excuse to be used to justify whatever mistakes, or social evils, that are being created onto Chinese society in general. And these social evils are created by Super Greed (暴利), or Super Profit. To me, this is one of the main cause of majority of the China's social evil.
- Historians when talking, or writing about Qing Ming Song Yuan, would simply say which emperor say what or did what, and the consequence was what and what. I have yet to read proper history books, which are written just to find excuses for some emperors, to justify whatever evil things they did, saying it's OK, some body else did more nasty things. We are not that nasty yet.
- When doing comparison between Yuan, Ming, Qing, we not only focus on nasty things, we should also focus on Good things. Just read all the articles written by PoA, all those featured articles. Nearly 100% of the content is about the Good of the Han Chinese culture. Now, PoA is a Westerner, a bright American university student, who will be a great sinologist, give him some time. Souldn't you learn something from him?
- I know for 350 years China had suffered a lot, but the backwardness was not caused by the West, to be fair. Not even by Qing Dynasty, as proposed by you and your internet blogging friends. Some historians point the fingers at Confucianism, I kind of agree with this kind of explanation. For example:劳心者治人,劳力者治於人, basically, the people is being divided into 2 classes: the rulers and those being ruled. Another example is 成王敗寇, an extreme form of them and us.
- We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Can you find a way to skip this stage???There's something called Capitalism, remember??? Put it this way. Can you find a way to skip this stage."We can keep on blaming others for our own problems for another 500 years, but that is not going to do any good for the Hua Xia, I am quite sure. Arilang talk 16:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)"
This is the solution. Its called free market capitalism.Teeninvestor (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
"Now, as children of Hua Xia, shouldn't we feel sad about the children of children of poorer Chinese, who have no choice but to stay back to live among all those poison, after all, they are just like us, children of Hua Xia. "
Well, I'm sorry. But the point is, its better than starvation(which would be the result of their unemployment).Oh ya, and please read Du Zhebie's stuff and you realize what I am talking about. Qing/Mao is two causes of China's Backwardness. I would rather have some social problems than starve(which is the ultimate evil)Teeninvestor (talk) 19:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
The evil of Super Profit 暴利
"Now, you and me, plus other editors, we all live happily(hopefully) in the West, in a relatively cleaner enviorment. " I live in the west but my relatives in China, as far as I can see, is not less comfortable.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:47, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, whatever system, or political agenda you believe in, 民为贵,社稷次之,君为轻 remains my motto. I hope you will agree with me one day. Arilang talk 20:53, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly why we must have free-market capitalism, as Deng Xiaoping has instituted.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:09, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
@Arilang, i suggest you try cleaning up every piece of grabadge in china. you should blame it on the people who are picking up the e waste and melting them down. those villagers are as stupid as they were 500 years ago, blame everything on heaven, and got lead poisoned.
@teeninvestor, free market capitalism blows. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.84.129.45 (talk) 22:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
First you call me a communist and now this. The point is, guys, you have to go through this "five-year old coal miners, lead poisoning" stage to get to the fruit of developed capitalism. That will be the Hua Xia's destiny. i am confident when historians look back they will say "Oh, Qing and after was just a tiny dark age of China's history(like North & south dynasties) and Deng Xiaoping revived Hua Xia, now its great again."Teeninvestor (talk) 23:00, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
AfD nomination of E-waste village
I have nominated E-waste village, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/E-waste village. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.
Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Killiondude (talk) 09:03, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Warning
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks,
and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Inner Asia during the Tang dynasty
Thanks for the invitation Teen, I would try to understand the cause of the problem then I will help you. Arilang talk 00:20, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
MediationI plan to withdraw from WP:3RR because it is ineffective and no uninvolved editor has shown the willingness and temerity in wading into this escalating dispute.
- Instead, the dispute resolution processes of formal mediation are necessary. If that fails, the resort to arbitration may prove helpful.
- We appear to confront a small scale replica of what has occurred in other, wider disputes. In my view, the the words and actions of what Teeninvestor wrongly characterizes as a "tag team" have been consistently informed by a four-prong examination at each and every point of this escalating drama:
- 1. What is the quality of the sources used by both sides in the dispute?
- 2. What is the consensus of scholars in the field; and does the source reflect that consensus?
- 3. Are the sources actually supporting the assertions for which they are cited?
- 4. Are unsourced assertions being used?
- As others will know better than me, these four points are, unsurprisingly, at the center of most protracted disputes
and are all violations of our core content policies, e.g., verifiability, no original research and neutrality.
- As I see it, your participation has not been reliably focused on aspects of Inner Asia during the Tang Dynasty which would lead to a stable, credible article.
- What seems to be missing is a method by which a determination on whether content policies are being followed can be made authoritatively. Mediation may help resolve the issues which mark this minor article as a battlefield. --Tenmei (talk) 15:00, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
This guy is out of control, man.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
- The mediation process is explained at WP:Mediation. I will initiate the process at Wikipedia:Requests for mediation. As you may know, your participation is voluntary; and in fact, you can thwart the process by refusing to agree to mediation or by withdrawing at any point afterwards. If you prefer, I will not include your name in this reasonable next step. --Tenmei (talk) 15:49, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Tenmei is out of control. He filed for WP:ARBRITRATION in an attempt to one-up me. Can you help me?Teeninvestor (talk) 23:14, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
What is WP:ARBRITRATION? talk 01:44, 19 March 2009 (UTC) Just go to the link I provide here: You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Verifiability/Use English/Burdens in proxy battlefield article and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks, and make your comments about inner asia during the Tang dynasty. Tenmei is out of control; he hopes high-level wikipedia admins can help him revive his cause. Your statement, I'm sure, will clear up the matter.Teeninvestor (talk) 15:35, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Good News!
Also, Ran Min article shows why he had to kill all the Hu in that era. Teeninvestor (talk) 11:21, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
By the way, some more good news- Chinese auto production is scheduled to surpass American this year. If this comes true, this will join ships, steel and other commodities in which China now produces several times. China's steel prdocution is 5X that of US.Teeninvestor (talk) 11:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
Government
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Plasma EconomyThe bbc article clearly blames the removal of socialism (effectively, communism), for the massive corruption and AIDS epidemic in Henan. seeing as your anti communist, you are owning yourself with the article!
Wow, This is such a biased article. Arilang1234, please correct the POV and bias in this article. What, so we need to reverse Deng's reforms and have socialism?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:39, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for removing the biased comment from the article. Though I 100% agree with Deng's reform and the open door policy, but still we cannot ignore problems such as E-waste village, because the home of Hua Xia is damaged beyond repair, then Han civilization will be baseless, and Han Chinese will be homeless, which is a very serious consequence. Arilang talk 01:58, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
AIDS epidemic is caused by capitalist reforms and open door policy
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Teen for your support. But may be it is against wiki rule to remove comments on talk page, please check. Arilang talk 03:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Editors using one BBC article to prove that communism is good for China, whereas I can show you thousands of articles to prove that communism is bad for China. And stop using child like logic:"Arilang clearly wants all chinese to die of AIDS by removing communism." Don't make me laugh. And don't forget, Arilang is also a Chinese. Arilang talk 17:34, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
HelloThanks for sharing these articles. I just took the time to read all three, so I apologize for putting them off until now. It took much longer for me to read the Chinese language ones (about an hour), as I am still only a 3rd-year speaker. Lol. As for Wang's article, he only allows enough space to mention sweeping generalizations about CCP's goals and their connection to policies of previous Chinese regimes. His overall point that the current CCP wants to build a safe, harmonious state (as opposed to an unsafe, discordant state? lol!) like those in the past should be a given, along with the global demands placed on China (another obvious point). Maybe if he allowed himself to write a larger article, then he could better explain himself; otherwise, it's just sweeping generalizations.
Oh, and by the way, check out the main page for Han Dynasty.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...I don't think there is sufficient enough space allowed in wiki articles such as the main Han Dynasty article to make any coherent or well-thought analysis of its similarities to later dynasties like Tang or to other civilizations. There is that Comparison between Han and Rome article that Teeninvestor worked very hard on. I'll at least provide a link to that in the main Han article. I think your suggestion is a good one for another article altogether, but Han Dynasty as it stands is perhaps large enough. Although I like to "democratize" and disseminate knowledge to all through a medium like Wiki, I'm tired of doing so much work and research for Wikipedia! Lol. I think I've given the laymen's world a most expansive contribution of scholarly knowledge for the ages. I'll continue to edit Wiki, but I don't think I'll ever tackle a subject as large as an entire dynasty ever again. Hopefully someone else can pick up the ball where I left off and rewrite Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty, etc.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:34, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Another great article this Han Dynasty. May be a bit more elabolation of Soft power of the Han/Tang golden age? Or little bit of comparison between Han Dynasty and other civilizations/empires of those times? Arilang talk 20:18, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Perhaps I could tidy it up a bit, but to be honest, tackling another dynasty article would be very time-consuming, and these days I shouldn't be wasting so much time on Wiki.--Pericles of AthensTalk 01:03, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- Well, your hard earned royal title Tian Kehan does not come easy, that is for sure. Jokes aside, my humble request is to leave Shang Dynasty, Zhou Dynasty, Qin Dynasty to other editors, what about a complete rewrite of Qing Dynasty, tilt just a little bit more towards the conflict and tension between the rulers(Manchus) and the be-ruled(Han Chinese)? I think Teeninvestor will be happy to work alongside you on this project? Arilang talk 20:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- I do agree with you, there are more important things in life beside wiki editing. The problem of Qing at the moment is too much info on the ruler side, nearly nothing on the be-ruled side. But then there is no hurry, just take it easy. Arilang talk 03:10, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
You can outdo Wang@PoA
- If you have read up the 君臣父子 relationship used by all the past empire states rulers, you probably would have found out that 君臣父子 is the basic 儒家 ideology used to maintain effective management of the relationship between the rulers and the be-ruled. Any Chinese regime, if it abandoned this basic rule, would have a hard time trying to achieve harmonious state.
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Without Soft power, the 大國 dream will just be a dream .The Han/Tang Golden Age 漢唐盛世 was much more than the sum of military might plus the total amount of silver(or gold) Arilang talk 19:02, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Economics is the basis of everything. As long as China has economic/military strength, along with cultural cohesion, she'll do fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 00:36, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
- I have made a suggestion to PoA, you and him together do something to Qing, add a bit more info on the conflict between Manchu and Han Chinese, what do you think?
- On the subject of reviving the Han/Tang Golden age, please have a look at Soft power. Do you think a super-super-power can do without a Soft power? Arilang talk 01:48, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences.
Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。
江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。
——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Yes, we had a conversation about this before, including the very dark side of this type of rule. Then again, that goes with the territory (i.e. near absolute rule by one individual).--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- Agreed. One can continually bully and batter other states into submission or to raid their stores of supplies, but this eventually drains one's own resources and leads to decline, or worse, demise. There is a wealth of good examples where Han, Tang, Song, etc. mastered the art of diplomacy for the benefit of China, but just as many examples where this was lacking.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Teen
Article comparing Mao to Yongzheng.I find it a bit interesting, however, I must put out some similiarities and differences. Mao was insane, crazy for power. He just wanted power. He wasn't a real communist, or socialist. He wanted to be emperor and supreme ruler. And when Deng, Liu Shaoqi saw communism wasn't working, wanted to start reforms, Mao launched Cultural revolution just to seize power. He didn't care about the country's development; he just wanted to seize power.
This is similar to Manchu Emperors- they didn't care about China. They cared only about their own thrones/Manchu exploition, so they stagnated China. In this way they are similar. However, Manchu did not go to extremes of Mao to keep on power(and good for China they didnt).
The key thing, I think ancient Chinese were in some ways better then they are now. Modern Hua Xia should not think all ancients are fools, like what Bo Yang thinks. people should not think they know everything; for example, those students in 1989 thought they knew everything and Deng Xiaoping was old, senile. It turns out they were wrong.Teeninvestor (talk) 20:01, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@Teen, I am glad you do like this article. May be we write a wiki based on this theme? Like I have said before, the 文字獄 cases, every single case should be developed into a wiki. Arilang talk 20:15, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
- If you can find at least one other article which makes the exact same comparison, then the creation of an article might be warranted. Remember, in order to create an article, something has to be given significant attention first by either credible scholars or mainstream media sources.--Pericles of AthensTalk 20:19, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Comparison of Mao to past emperors@PoA, that is not a problem, Mao himself did mention many past emperors, and even wrote poems to compare himself with big name emperors such as 唐太宗, 漢武帝.
北国风光,千里冰封,万里雪飘。望长城内外,惟余莽莽;大河上下,顿失滔滔。山舞银蛇,原驰蜡象,欲与天公试比高。须晴日,看红妆素裹,分外妖娆。 江山如此多娇,引无数英雄竞折腰。惜秦皇汉武,略输文采;唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。一代天骄,成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕。俱往矣,数风流人物,还看今朝。 ——毛泽东《沁园春·雪》
秦 皇汉武,略输文采 Mao commented on 秦始皇 and 汉武帝, saying that they could not write poems like Mao did, in fact a lot of Mao's poems were co-written with other writers.
唐宗宋祖,稍逊风骚。风骚 is very difficult to translate, is actually a low kind of words, mainly used to describe sexy or loose kind of females. Mao used 风骚 on 唐太宗 Tian Kehan 宋太祖 is very inappropiate.
成吉思汗,只识弯弓射大雕 Mao said 成吉思汗 only knows how to shoot arrows, shows that Mao was both arrogant and igorant, 成吉思汗 was ten times better than Mao in the conquest of the Mongol empire.
Many be we can use this famous Mao poem as the basic of a new wiki, then elabolate into the comparison of Mao and various Manchu emperors? Arilang talk 21:23, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, the author of the Boxun article 毛泽东的“文革”取法于雍正的“文字狱”/刘梦溪 is infact a big name Chinese scholar 刘梦溪, in this case the comparison of Mao article may be have a better chance to stand on it's own? Arilang talk 21:34, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Confucianism responsible for China's decline?
@Teen, one of the dark side of Con teaching is 君欲臣死, 臣不得不死;父欲子亡, 子不得不亡. This saying was used especially by Manchu rulers to kill people. Arilang talk 02:00, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
Joel Fitzgibbon article
- I've just reverted your addition of further innuendo about Ms Liu. You additions to this article are clear violations of WP:BLP as they are cherry-pick selected negative claims about her and you will be blocked if they continue. Nick-D (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
I know you are admin, but do not abuse your power, as there are other admins around, and you are not the only one. That aside, please answer my question: when major media can report Ms Liu's connections with high Chinese government officials, why not wikipedia? Or are you treating wikipedia as your personal blog? Arilang talk 08:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
@ Nick-D, please discuss at Joel Fitzgibbon talk page because that seems to be the right place. Arilang talk 09:23, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for WP:BLP violations following two warnings. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl on my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
After reviewing the edits concerned, there was a fairly serious violation of our biographies of living persons policy. Also the user's failure to communicate about the edits or obtain consensus for them, especially considering the rather hardcore nature of the allegations. The sources quoted (The Age, smh etc) do not say Liu was a spy, although some reports have contained some allegations by named individuals to that effect. I think the correct decision has been made - it's up to the user to edit within acceptable standards once their block expires. Orderinchaos 09:53, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
{{unblock|Your reason here}}
below, but you should read our guide to appealing blocks first. Nick-D (talk) 09:26, 30 March 2009 (UTC)Arilang1234 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))
Request reason:
I did not understand the our biographies of living persons policy in the first place, now I have read it and understand it, I shall not repeat my mistakes like I have done at Joel Fitzgibbon, and I apologise to user Nick-D for my uncivil comments towards him. As in my discussion with user Moonriddengirl at my talk page, I promise I shall exercise caution towards the issue of Helen Liu in relation to Joel Fitzgibbon
Decline reason:
To me, this edit does serious damage to any pretense of impartiality on your part (that's why it was deleted). Also, putting this material into an article about someone or something other than Ms. Liu is called coatracking, and exacerbates your already-serious violations of BLP. I cannot assume good faith on your part after looking over your contrib history. You just don't get BLP; I'm surprised you aren't blocked indefinitely. — Daniel Case (talk) 13:42, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Reply to your note; Fitzgibbon BLP issues
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- I admit my error of not assuming good faith towards user/admin Nick-D, I would like to offer my sincere appology to user Nick-D, and promise to him from now on I will be civil about my comments.
- I agree that I did not fully understand the biographies of living persons policy regulation before, now thanks to your explanation, I shall be very careful towards the Joel Fitzgibbon article, also because it is an article about a current politician, as you have explained, politic is a highly violatile issue.
- I will not try to restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and I will discuss the matter with delicacy.
- I like to take this opportunity to say sorry to user Nick-D for being uncivil in my comments, and promise to him this will not happen again. Arilang talk 13:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
What happened? Why are you blocked?Teeninvestor (talk) 00:46, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
No problem Teen, it is all over. Well, politic sucks. Anyway, are you going to help PoA on proposed 天朝大國 or not, I know you do like these kind of articles. Arilang talk 08:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization.
It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
- Hi. :) I'm not at all familiar with the situation, and before I look, let me just note as is linked on my userpage that the processes when you believe an admin is misusing his or her power is set out here. Without having looked, but on general process, Arilang1234, even if it were so I would have no special authority to do anything about it, though I would certainly join you in asking Nick-D to reconsider if I thought he was acting in error. But the first step, always, is to politely discuss the matter with the administrator in question. If a polite conversation (or at least an attempt at one) does not provide satisfaction, additional steps are available. With administrators as with all other contributors, it is advisable to start with an assumption of good faith.
- General information aside, specifically, in this case, you've run afoul of the biographies of living persons policy. I do not know if you have ever encountered this one before, Arilang, but if someone has concerns that material you are adding is incompatible with BLP, you should proceed very carefully. This policy has been created both in general sensitivity to the potential for damage to human beings and to protect Wikipedia from potential prosecution. I am not Australian and not at all familiar with the woman, but I agree heartily that we must be very careful in handling such situations. Perhaps you intended with this edit to reach consensus at the talk page, but to an outsider that post itself reads as a problem. The first sentence is an unsourced allegation against the woman herself and also a slur on the man. Remember, I know nothing about this case, but even if it is true, you can't say anything that could be construed as an attack on a living person unless it is well-sourced: not in the article, not on the talk, not anywhere on Wikipedia. Discussing how to handle a matter like this requires some delicacy to avoid crossing that BLP line. It helps to remember that editors on Wikipedia are not meant to start from a point of view of our own—as encyclopedists, our job is to provide a concise and balanced overview of what reliable source have to say about notable subjects and not to take an opinion on what is true of them ourselves. I think from your comment on the talk page that you may at least temporarily have lost sight of that. This question was well within reason. This one was not...not only because you are lodging allegations against the subjects, but because you are not assuming good faith of other contributors.
- When you run into a question about sensitive information related to living people, the place to go with it, if the talk page is not fruitful, is WP:BLPN. You still must phrase yourself such that you are not making allegations against living people, but your question should meet a neutral audience. This may be important if perchance you do run into contributors at a specific article who are not interested in neutrally presenting information, but for some reason desire to keep information unfavorable to the subject out of print. (I monitor the article of one politician for BLP who flips back and forth; his supporters and detractors have episodic wars over unbalancing him one way or another. Keeping it neutral is a challenge, and I have been accused both of whitewashing & slandering him in his article, depending on which side I was dealing with at a given time.)
- I don't believe that you intended to be disruptive. Although I have only dealt with you on occasion and do not know your overall contribution pattern, on those instance where we have interacted, I've found you willing to work within process once you understood the process. I would support your early unblocking so long as you indicate you understand that you must not restore this contentious material to the article without consensus and that you must discuss the matter with delicacy. However, while I would support your early unblocking, I would not feel comfortable acting on your unblock request, as your note to me at my talk page might give a seeming of bias. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
- @Moonriddengirl, I sincerely thank you very much for you support, words just could not express my heart-felt feeling.
- What I would suggest you do now, then, is remove your last unblock request and make another one clarifying that you now understand the problem you encountered and that you intend to proceed with due caution in mind of WP:BLP to find consensus for handling the issue. There's nothing wrong with pointing to this conversation in that unblock your request. Your existing unblock request rather gives the impression that you still do not understand the problem--which was true, undoubtedly, when you made it, but which is evidently no longer the case. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:31, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang DynastyAn Arbitration case involving you has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Mailer Diablo 14:02, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello again
@PoA, I am happy to see that you are interested in Tianchao Daguo, I think it would become a very important article, reasons:
- Nearly all Han Chinese do dream of China revive Han/Tang Golden Age again.
- PRC constantly telling others that it is now in some kind of 盛世 Golden Age.
- PRC constantly talk like 大國(translation:Big Nation, Great power), and particularly very obvious undertone in speech towards foreigners, see Xi Jinping#Latin American Tour and Controversy
- PRC very much like other countries to treat China as a Tianchao Daguo Arilang talk 08:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hmm...there is a problem. Although this direct phrase is used in many Chinese-language sources, I can't find any English language sources which use (or attempt to translate) 天朝大國. The first thing one must do before creating an article is to gather credible sources, and right now I'm having trouble doing that. Do you know of any English-based sources which explicitly mention, describe, and analyze Tian Chow Da Guo 天朝大國?--Pericles of AthensTalk 17:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
@PoA, it is OK, I will have to create it like the way I did with Hua-Yi distinction. Arilang talk 18:54, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
天朝大國 is a positive term, it refers to HuaXia's central location and superiority at the time. 天朝大國 meant that in exchange for being nominal vassals, HuaXia would protect smaller states, who were tributaries to China and export civilization. It will be difficult for PRC to become 天朝大國 unless one day China develops to the point where its per capita is same as US. Then CHinese will have 50% of world's GDP, just like Song dynasty and PRC can become 天朝大國 again.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:46, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I would love to contribute to your sandbox; however, like I have stated just above, I will need sources first before even making an attempt.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:04, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I tried looking for (English-based) sources on 天朝大國, but still nothing substantial, and I will need English-based sources to write an article on English Wikipedia, unfortunately. It's kind of strange that there are no good sources in English on this topic, considering how 天朝大國 can be compared to the American ideas of "city upon a hill" and "manifest destiny". Tell me if you guys find any English-based sources, and I will gladly help out.--Pericles of AthensTalk 02:58, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
我操!!! | —Talk contribs 00:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
@李博杰, with so many Keep, so no need for me to add comment, its seem. Arilang talk 08:06, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Helen Liu
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits.
That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Speedy deletion of Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft.
A tag has been placed on Roving ambassador for China/User:Arilang1234/Draft. requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}}
to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that they userfy the page or have a copy emailed to you. WackoJackO 14:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the article to User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/Roving ambassador for China, along with the Talk page. Now it should no longer be at risk of deletion. EdJohnston (talk) 14:40, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Hi Arilang. I think this particular topic is amusing (politics is always fun), but does this article meet the criteria for Wikipedia:Notability? Always check this guideline article before creating an article out of a recent news story; as you've already seen, people here are jumpy about deleting anything they feel might violate Wikipedia:Notability.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:03, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, "Roving ambassador for China" is a catchy kind of phrase, regarding to notability, I do not think it would be a problem, I mean with China 300 million netizens, any terms, as long as it involve "China", will be picked up, and repeated millions of times. I am sure if you google "Roving ambassador for China" right now, there will be many hits. That said, you are welcome to add content, as this article is China related. Arilang talk 15:18, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
- Sure. Like I said, I find politics to be very fun. Is this "roving ambassador for China" phrase an entirely new internet meme? Or has this phrase been used in the past? If it is a repeat phrase for any politician of any country who takes a liking to China, then it would definitely be notable and warrant the creation of an article.--Pericles of AthensTalk 15:48, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Roving ambassadorPoA,- I think it is a new phrase. I am sorry PoA, "Roving ambassador" is not a new phrase, but I am not sure about "Roving ambassador for China".
- I think it would become a very popular internet phrase.
- At the moment it is only used to describe the PM of Oz, but who knows, soon it would be used on others, I am sure. It will become an international "Hot" phrase, trust me.
- PoA, you need to become "political" sooner or later, remember I said:修身 齐家 治國 平天下, there is no way that anyone can live in a "political vacuum", one has to take side sometimes. Arilang talk 15:59, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you.
I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Economic history of China finished(except for sourcing)!please have a look, your suggestions are apperciated. I haven't sourced it yet though.Teeninvestor (talk) 16:36, 4 April 2009 (UTC) User:Teeninvestor/Sandbox/Economic history of China.
Thank you. I have dealt with the notes you have left behind. Regarding the politics of Wu Hu and Northern & southern dynasties these sections have lots of politics because frankly, except in Jin-controlled regions(and later Northern Wei ) there wasn't much economic activity because of slaughter. In Book of Jin it says in china that "hundreds of kilometres" were left without any inhabitants after the Wu Hu passed through. It isn't for no reason that the population plunged from about 45 million in Jin to 20-25 million. This is a fun little quote that shows how Wu Hu conducts warfare(in this case Northern Wei invading Liu Song after Liu Song recaptured 中原): :
The Wei forces laid South Yan, Xu, North Yan, Yu, Qing, and Ji Provinces to waste. The Song deaths and injuries were innumerable. When Wei forces encountered Song young men, the forces quickly beheaded them or cut them in half. The infants were pierced through with spears, and the spears were then shaken so that the infants would scream as they were spun, for entertainment. The commanderies and counties that Wei forces went through were burned and slaughtered, and not even grass was left. When sparrows returned in the spring, they could not find houses to build nest on, so they had to do so in forests. Wei soldiers and horses also suffered casualties of more than half, and the Xianbei people were all complaining.
Teeninvestor (talk) 01:05, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
As to chengbao(contracting), some are CPC officials, but hey, remember Deng's quote: "Some must get rich first(让一部分人先富起来)". Not all are CPC officials. However, a lot of contractors do get hospitals & schools because of bribes. They operate it pretty well though.Teeninvestor (talk) 01:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
SO far this is China's GDP as a share of world that I know(some are unsourced, so I won't add them).
- Han- 25%
- Tang- 27%
- Song- 50%+
- Ming- 31%
- Qing- 33%(Qing's population increased 150% from Ming after introduction of American Crops)
- ROC(1913)- 9%
- ROC(1949)- 5%
- PRC(1959)- 6-7%
- PRC(1978)- 5%(This is trough of China's decline from 1840)
- PRC(2008)- 11%(Which is like China's share of GDP during Jin dynasty before Wu Hu invasion)
70.31.69.134 (talk) 17:23, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
New article finished | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 02:32, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
New section Anti-Korean sentiment#In Japan created. Might need expansion. Have a good day. -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 05:41, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical ChineseFound it interesting updating/editing these.
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_1
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_2
- http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Classical_Chinese/Lesson_4
Perhaps you should try? -- 李博杰 & lt;/font> | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 13:33, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Classical Chinese grammar | —Talk contribs email guestbook complaints 06:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence
Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
Fair use non free law?
Plasma Economy round 2I saw this in your edit summary:
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
The BBC article did not make this claim:This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return)
.
What???? Socialism good???? I don't think so. Also, this article is extremely POV. I'm going to take a look at it.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:18, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, what I meant was The BBC article did not make this claim: The claim This is further evidence that capitalism is bad and socialism is good for the people, as this AIDS epidemic started when china was capitalist, china must return, which was made by other editors, not me. Arilang talk 21:27, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I see. Sorry. However, the editor of said article is quite biased in favor of socialism.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:28, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Tang_Dynasty/Evidence Would you mind making a statement here? Also check the diffs I have presented on Tenmei. Oh man does he have lots of drama. Even a 4 line statement would be fine.Teeninvestor (talk) 23:45, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what I can do. You should try to avoid Tenmei in the future, or just ignore him, because he has lost the plot. Arilang talk 21:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
I've researched his history extensively as shown by diffs. User:Tenmei is going to be hard-pressed to defeat me.Teeninvestor (talk) 21:35, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
List of offenses
Thanks PoA for your comment, and feel free to add content, I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again. How about "running dog of the American Imperialist "(美帝國主義走狗), quite creative is it not? Unlike the western world, dog 狗 occupy a very low social rank in China, often end up as cuisin on dinner table. Arilang talk 17:06, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Yes, when someone in the West insults another by calling them a dog, it is not only less severe, but usually implies that one is being a loyal pet (and thus a controlled tool of another). Or, a woman can be insulted by saying she is as pretty or attractive as a female dog (i.e. a bitch, pardon my language! but this also means she is an unpleasant, malicious person as well).--Pericles of AthensTalk 18:09, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
PoA, on the subject of calling others as animal, I think it is a universal practice. But the Chinese(also Koreans, who love dogs as a cuisin) do not appreciate that dogs are our best and most loyal friends, and dogs often risk their own life to safe the life of their owners. If you listen to this song, then you would think that dogs are ten times better than humans. 1994 Karamay fire#Tragedy portrayed in folk song
User:Arilang1234/Sandbox/List of offences that attract jail terms in China
@ user Rjanag, I am glad you like the title. As you may be able to guess from my talk page, plus the articles I have edited, I like controversial and political subjects. That said, I feel that the judicial system of PRC is light years behind that of the West, and it is only natural for Wikipedia to document it as a piece of development of human history, plus it is a ongoing situation, and still many innocent people perishing in horrible conditions. Arilang talk 21:20, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
vague accusations such as "anti-revolution" (反革命), "capitalist roader" (走資本主義路線), "running dog of the imperialist " (帝國主義走狗) would certainly guaranteed the accused being standing in front of a firing squad.
First of all, the capitalist roader is shorter. Second of all, you do realize these offences are no longer in the judicial system of China ever since Deng Xiaoping's reforms??? Third of all, they did not "guarantee" a shooting. Many people were accused of these, but it mainly depended on their status. For example, a peasant may be a 反革命 and live, while Liu Shaoqi could not(because Mao's goal was to kill him). Teeninvestor (talk) 22:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Teen, you are welcome to make changes before I remove the sandbox, also please check new article Sun Dongdong. Arilang talk 22:23, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
OH WOW. I suspect this guy is ill. Teeninvestor (talk) 22:26, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the whole event will keep on fermenting and end up BIG. Arilang talk 22:32, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I have read article saying that Hu Jintao is trying to resurrect Maoist doctrine, so everything old may be new again
Hu and Wen's socialistic practices is more like the social democracy of the west, where governments impose unsustainable welfare policies. This is a change from Deng Xiaoping's relatively free market policies, but nothing like Mao's planned economy.Teeninvestor (talk) 22:47, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned non-free image (Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:E-waste village children suffer extremely high level of lead poisoning.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Skier Dude (talk) 03:58, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- Thanks user Skier Dude, I did not know that the image was removed, now I have put it back, thanks for you info. Arilang talk 07:51, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- As indicated in the edit summary when the image was originally removed, the image is a copyrighted image from Time Magazine (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1870162_1822164,00.html) and as such violates copyright laws. I have again removed the image from the article, please do not add it back unless you receive permission from Time to use it. Thanks... ttonyb1 (talk) 15:41, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
- I moved the discussion of the image to Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2009 April 9, so that a couple more sets of eyes can take a look at the issue. Skier Dude (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2009 (UTC)