Talk:Sasa Ognenovski

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 04:17, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Saša Ognenovski → Sasa Ognenovski – Another one. Retired Australian footballer. Incorrect use of the letter "š". Sasa is an Australian and this letter does not exist in the English alphabet. Simione001 (talk) 05:54, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 13:37, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This person is from Macedonia. The spelling of a person's name doesn't change just because they work in another country (and plenty of words in English, especially names, use diacritics). --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 13:37, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - He is not from Macedonia. He is born and raised in Australia and played for the Australian national team on many occasions. Simione001 (talk) 23:32, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The spelling of a person's name doesn't change just because they work in another country isn't necessarily true. WP:DIACRITICS advises their use in articles based on how the name appears in reliable sources. The article Wu Chia-ching was moved to Wu Jia-qing in 2011, when the subject moved to China and the romanization of his name began appearing in sources with a Hanyu Pinyin-influenced spelling, rather than the Wade–Giles romanization typical of people born in Taiwan. José Canseco was moved to Jose Canseco on a MOS:ID basis (citing a self-published source) in 2009. Whether or not diacritics should be removed, retained or added seems best settled by a comparison of reliable sources. Vycl1994 (talk) 16:26, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Strong oppose absolutely not. Would then be read "Sassa" not "Sasha". In ictu oculi (talk) 21:38, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
• Support + Additional info - In Australia he is commonly referred to as Sasa without diacritic, WP:COMMONNAME applies. I cannot to find any news articles which spells his name using diacritic. Furthermore Sasa is born and raised in Australia. He has represented the Australian national team on several occasions. Simione001 (talk) 23:32, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Furthermore - Upon investigation, the Australian government Department of Home Affairs does not issue documents (such as citizenship or birth certificates) with diacritic. All names may only contain standard English alphabetic characters, that is 'a' to 'z' or 'A' to 'Z'. Simione001 (talk) 23:49, 3 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 09:03, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose per In ictu oculi. GiantSnowman 09:06, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - @GiantSnowman: There are multiple sources spelling his name without the use of diacritics. [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Simione001 (talk) 22:32, 4 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose this disruptive and tedious request. Rovingrobert (talk) 12:36, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved with consensus to follow Ortizesp's comment – Saša Ognenovski (soccer player) → Sasa Ognenovski, Rodrigo (beach soccer player) → Rodrigo (beach soccer), Antonio Robles (soccer player) → Antonio Robles (eliminating the disambiguation page), and Jeff Moore (soccer player) → Jeff Moore (soccer). (non-admin closure) Adumbrativus (talk) 04:19, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Saša Ognenovski (soccer player) → Saša Ognenovski (soccer)
• Rodrigo (beach soccer player) → Rodrigo (beach soccer)
• Antonio Robles (soccer player) → Antonio Robles (soccer)
• Jeff Moore (soccer player) → Jeff Moore (soccer)

– As seen on the talk page of Talk:Michael Green (soccer, born 1978), I have found four more page article names with "soccer player" as part of the titles. Not sure if the beach soccer player one follows Wikipedia:Naming_conventions (sportspeople)#Association football (soccer) though as beach soccer is not the same as association football. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 21:50, 8 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment, Saša Ognenovski (soccer player) should be moved to Sasa Ognenovski, he's the only person on English Wikipedia with the name. Antonio Robles (soccer player) should also be moved to Antonio Robles, which redirects to a DAB - the only other entry does not go by that name, but instead goes by Luis Antonio Robles which is different enough IMO that only a hatnote is needed. Support the other 2 moves per WP:NCSP.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:31, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Actually should be moved to Sasa Ognenovski as per previous discussion in June 2019. Simione001 (talk) 04:55, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Which resulted in consensus not to move it to this title! -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:53, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
      • If you look at the history of this page it was moved on 1 September 2019 to Sasa Ognenovski for good reason and then was sneakily moved again without discussion on 17 November 2021 to which it remains today. Simione001 (talk) 22:03, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

        If you look at the history of this page it was moved on 1 September 2019 to Sasa Ognenovski for good reason and then was sneakily moved again without discussion on 17 November 2021 to which it remains today. The "sneaky" moving was that which happened after the RM above had determined not to move it! If there has been an RM then that RM's result should not be ignored; only a further RM can change the result. It is frankly beyond me how you can accuse the second move of being sneaky but not the first move. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:51, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

        It could take a long time to see if another "Sasa Ognenovski" page ever existed in the past for this article to have an identifier in there. Quite obvious we don't need one right now. If there is another one which has notability then we will use Sasa Ognenovski (soccer). I can see Ortizep modified the link after I've made my previous reply which will be the right location. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 22:12, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

        • I can readily find muliple articles which support this spelling. [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18]. Simione001 (talk) 22:16, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Ortizesp's alternative suggestions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:52, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 16:45, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Ortizesp's proposal. GiantSnowman 16:47, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Seems fair to do it that way because of the amount of articles with those names. I can't think why the article about Sasa Ognenovski needs an identifier. Iggy (Swan) (Contribs) 17:07, 9 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Support Ortizesp's proposal. Simione001 (talk) 20:55, 10 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Support Ortizesp's proposal. RedPatch (talk) 02:13, 17 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]