Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals/Manorial histories

The following discussion is an archived proposal of the WikiProject below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.

The proposed WikiProject was not created. Closing proposal due to insufficient interest. Ajpolino (talk) 16:44, 8 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed by Lobsterthermidor (talk) 09:12, 6 July 2013 (UTC). Following basic discussion on the topic in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements (under heading "Manorial histories") a need has been identified to develop guidelines for writing articles on histories of (English) manors and important, historic and notable estates which were not technically manors, i.e. had no manorial court of their own. Will need different treatment for different nations, but the concept of a manor existed in most ancient nations which have experienced feudal society. These articles are intended to focus mainly on listing, and describing with appropriate detail, the persons and families which were lords of the manor, or held the estate in demesne. This will involve geneaological information. The identities of and changes in the overlords will also be relevant. They are not intended to focus primarily on the architecture of the manor house or capital mansion, the village situated within the manor, or the parish the boundaries of which latter may well be co-terminous with those of the manor. Frequently manorial histories concern persons highly important at the local, parochial, even county level, but who would not be WP:Notable enough to warrant stand-alone articles. (e.g. not having held public office as MP or Sheriff). These persons it is envisaged can be appropriately dealt with in manorial histories. There is a huge volume of sources available for this topic to become fully developed, for example the Victoria County History series, heraldic visitations, transactions and reports of county history societies, monumental inscriptions in churches, which specifically qualify as valid sources under Wikipedia:Verifiability: "Source material must have been published, the definition of which for our purposes is "made available to the public in some form". (Footnote attached:) "This includes material such as documents in publicly-accessible archives, inscriptions on monuments, gravestones, etc., that are available for anyone to see" (end of footnote).[reply]

• Manor of King's Nympton
• Manor of Combe Martin
• Manor of Molland
• See Category:Former manors in Devon

The scope for these articles is huge. Virtually every ancient village in England, of which clearly there are thousands, was part of a manor. Some parishes contain more than 1 manor, (i.e. Molland) and perhaps one historic notable estate too (i.e. Monkleigh).

Why are such articles required? They will be of interest to persons living in the local village; to residents of UK descent living abroad, e.g. in the USA whose families originated on the manor. Many thousands such visitors come to the UK every year to visit their ancestral churches; to UK visitors to the church, who will be able to consult WP re church monuments, stained glass windows, heraldry, bench ends etc., which refer to the various families which held the manor, or an important freehold estate within the manor. Many churches don't have leaflets available to visitors, most are short, often inaccurate and unsourced. The local pub may be called the "Wrey Arms" (Tawstock in Devon) and show the armorials of that family on the street sign. The visitor or local may wonder about that and look at WP to find some answers.

Because a manorial history is not a standard prose article but is essentially a chronological expanded list of discrete families or persons who held the manor and because "the topic requires significant effort on the part of readers" I propose that each family be given its own section. Without clear sections it can appear like an impenetrable morass of names, dates and families. Also, it is important to have the names of the families showing successively in the Table of Contents. That is achieved by using section headers, one per family/holder. Bullet points can be used within each family section to list each heir of the manor, and his her relationship to the previous one, i.e. (son), (nephew) etc. Some of these persons when more notable will have their own articles and can be linked to. These families are of themselves notable, many are recorded in Heraldic visitations and formed the pool of "county families" from which in feudal times local royal officials like sheriff, JP, etc were selected by the monarch.

WP:MOS provides some guidance regarding section layout in this area which may be relevant:

• WP:Manual of Style/Layout, under "Headings and sections": These headings clarify articles by breaking up text, organizing content, and populating the table of contents
• MOS:PARAGRAPHS: Sections usually consist of paragraphs of running prose. Bullet points should be minimized in the body and lead of the article, if they are used at all; however, a bulleted list may be useful to break up what would otherwise be a large, grey mass of text, particularly if the topic requires significant effort on the part of readers

In most cases the manor article will be a sub-article of the village article of the same name, (see e.g. Molland and Manor of Molland) and will thus be given the Category of the village. The category "English manors" could also be created, clearly distinct from the existing Category:Manor houses in the United Kingdom.

• Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements

(Lobsterthermidor (talk) 10:07, 6 July 2013 (UTC)) will join the project. Please support below if in favour.[reply]

Please add points for discussion here:

• This is clearly the wrong name. Manors exist outside of England, and using "Manorial histories" for just English Manors is completely unacceptable. -- 76.65.128.222 (talk) 05:33, 16 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the project's talk page (if created) or at the WikiProject Council). No further edits should be made to this page.