Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bakir123/Archive

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Bakir123

Bakir123 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki)

23 June 2020

Suspected sockpuppets

User:Bakir123 edited on 22 June until 23:02, when they set up a GAN for FK Željezničar Sarajevo. They then stopped editing. User:BosGamBR then started editing at 23:06, by initiating that review (Talk:FK Željezničar Sarajevo/GA1). They continued to edit until 23:20, then stopped. At 23:29, User:Bakir123 began editing again. Neither account uses edit summaries, and they have a large overlap of content edits. Harrias talk 13:24, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Hey Harrias! Yes, it is true. I did use the two accounts for the review, a use that is pretty much prohibited. I am sorry for that. I do promise that that will not happen again. Sorry to the Wikipedia community as well. I was however a bit bored that night however and just wanted to try to review the page. That is probably the main reason why I did that haha. Again, sorry, hope it is not a big problem. Never have been a controversy guy. Bakir123 talk 17:21, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The sockpuppet account was registered in 2018, only two months after the master registered. The sock's first edit was to the same article the master edited the day prior. The heavy overlap shows this wasn't a role account; it seems to have always been an illicit sock. Bakir123 is only sorry he got caught. The only option here is to ban. Chris Troutman (talk) 15:39, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This edit also looks concerning. Robby.is.on (talk) 16:05, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What about Hadis123 (talk · contribs), @Mz7:? The user name is strikingly similar and they edit in the same area. Robby.is.on (talk) 22:51, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Robby.is.on (talk) 07:54, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

  •  In progress - Mz7 (talk) 18:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Bakir123 and BosGamBR are  Confirmed. I tried to use CheckUser see if there are other accounts involved, but I wasn't able to find anything conclusive (other CUs are free to take a second look). Notwithstanding Bakir123's confession above, the sockpuppetry in this case was quite extensive, stretching back years and apparently far beyond just one bored night. For this reason, I am blocking both accounts indefinitely. Mz7 (talk) 19:08, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Robby.is.on: That account is interesting. You're right that there is significant overlap in editing interest and the usernames are similar, but the two accounts frequently interact with each other in Bosnian as if they were separate people (see [1]). From a technical standpoint, Hadis123 (talk+ · tag · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · spi block · block log · CA · CheckUser(log) · investigate · cuwiki) is  Possible: same location, but the device is different. I am not sure whether it is the same person, but it does seem suspicious. I've reopened the case for a second opinion. Mz7 (talk) 23:36, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    Back in 2019 there is multiple discussions on Hadis123's talk page. The discussions tend to be about Hadis123's edits. The discussion style and also reading a rough translation suggests to me that Bakir123 is giving advice to a different user. Also Hadis123's style of replying (creating a new section named "Reply" to reply) is different to how Bakir123 replies. Also looking at Hadis123's abuse filter log, they try to post a message for Bakir123 on Bakir123's userpage. This is caught and stopped. Hadis123 does this 3 times. This newbieish behaviour of editing a userpage instead of the user talk page and replying in new sections suggests to me this is a different person. However, I am still not completely sure. Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 10:11, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmm, I'd say there is insufficient evidence at this time to block the Hadis123 account, so I'll go ahead and mark this case as closed. Mz7 (talk) 18:00, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

27 June 2020

Suspected sockpuppets


Pro forma report (i.e. filing for the record). See below. Mz7 (talk) 22:05, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

04 January 2021

Suspected sockpuppets


Kirbapara's account was created on 25 June, two days after Bakir123 was blocked.(XTools profile) They knew their way around straight away creating a new category in their first edit (Contribs) and have since edited in the same topic area.(Editor Interaction Analyser) In August ([2]) and ([3]) they were auto-blocked after using the same IP address as Bakir123.

Bakir123 has a history of lying about sockpuppetry. Robby.is.on (talk) 15:33, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

  • This user has been checked multiple times in the past with respect to those autoblocks, and I've also just run a check—in my view, this user is  Unlikely to be Bakir123, and those autoblocks are probably collateral damage (i.e. unrelated users sharing the same IP). The behavioral overlap is interesting, but I think it can be explained as two editors who are both interested in Bosnian football articles. For these reasons, I'm closing this SPI without action. Mz7 (talk) 20:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

26 January 2021

Suspected sockpuppets


I've been watching Bosnian football articles for years, because of constant sockpuppetry from disruptive user HankMoodyTZ and I'm sure that you have rejected the evidence of autoblock due to shared IP from last SPI[4] too hastily.

From what I saw Kirbapara is the same user as Bakir123, so I show you some edit similatities that indicate it.

Basically since 2 years Bosnian football articles were edited almost exclusively by User:HankMoodyTZ from his IP ranges and User:Bakir123. Then User:Bakir123 switched to User:Kirbapara account.

Article Amar Beganović was created by Bakir123. In April HankMoodyTZ edited it from his IP[5], but was partially reverted so in June he made the same characteristic changes[6]: "Use dmy dates template" date back to January, "birth date and age" template name from capital to lower case. In lede, linking from footballer to Association football instead of Football player and delete reflist splitting to 2 cols.[7]. Later in June HankMoodyTZ made similar edit[8] In this edit please look at the Career statistics section, at the end of "updated" template he removed the period at the end of the sentence. Bakir123 added this period in this edit[9]. Then HankMoody made his "own way" edit again[10] and one day later Bakir123 was blocked. And then appears Kirbapara and what did he do? He changed everythig by "Bakir123 way"[11], "Use dmy dates temple" to current month as Bakir123 used to, "birth date and age" template name back to capital letter, and this little period in the Career statistics section, at the end of "updated" template.

Now if you look at Bakir123 other edits you see that these characteristic little changes were not a single case but were a part of his edit pattern at the time as he did such changes ale in other articles like there[12]. (no. 1) "Use dmy dates template" to current month, (no. 2) "birth date and age" template name from lower case to capital letter, (no. 3) In lede changing linking from footballer to Football player instead of Association football, (no. 4) splitting reflist to 2 cols(with changing starting letter to capital).

In this article there was also "Career statistics" table, so in his edit next to above pattern edits, he also made this (no. 5) pattern edit I pointed out- added period in the Career statistics section, at the end of "updated" template.[13]

And now the same pattern changes from Kirbapara: "Use dmy dates template" to current month, "birth date and age" template name from lower case to capital letter, splitting reflist to 2 cols[14]

In this edit[15] - changing linking from footballer to Football player instead of Association football in lede, splitting reflist to 2 cols, added "Use dmy dates template"(with changing starting letter to capital).

Another characteristic edit pattern (no. 6) made from both accounts is changing digits schema in "birth date template" from "1" to "01" etc, like here from Bakir123[16] and Kirbapara[17].

Check out the lede he added in Meho Kodro from Kirbapara. He added a word professional before a term football manager and changed linking to footballer to Football player instead of Association football[18]. And similar lede change from Bakir123 also word professional before manager and changing linking from footballer to Football player instead of Association football (pattern no.3)[19]

In this edit[20] we see again changing digits schema in "birth date template" -(edit pattern no.6) and splitting reflist to 2 cols-(edit pattern no.4) also adding Career statistics table with characteristic to Bakir123, but unusual period at the end of "updated" template -(edit pattern no.5).

The most frequent edit pattern that late pre-block Bakir123 and fresh Kirbapara were using in most of their edits seems to be pattern no.4 - splitting reflist to 2 cols(with changing starting letter to capital). Some examples[21][22][23][24] and from Kirbapara [25][26][27][28][29][30]. This must be habitual edit he started to make from Bakir123 just before he was blocked that's why he continued to do such blanket changes in other articles from Kirbapara.

If you need further confirmation just look at recent edit interactions from both accounts[31]. Edits never overlap but gaps between edits from both accounts are sometimes only a few minutes.

Also look at Kirbapara edit count[32], it has significantly decreased, by 26.01.2021 it's only 379 this month, when range in previous months were between 1100-2000 per month. Why? Because the rest of edits (798) were made from Bakir123 account[33]-- Oleola (talk) 04:50, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Since it looks like that Bakir123 is switching devices to trick the Checkusers I'm posting further evidence that shows that Kirbapara is Bakir123's sockpuppet. Bakir123 was blocked on 23 June 2020, so let's look at his contributions on bs.wiki since 24 June[34] We see two edits in Edin Dzeko article that ended on 22:45[35] so now switch on en.wiki and we see the same type of edit (updating stats) from IP that ended on 22:41[36]. In this IP edit on en.wiki we see also the characterictic to Bakir123, but unusual edit detail, which I called (edit pattern no. 1) - updating "Use dmy dates template" to current month. So it seems that IP is Bakir123. To further confirmation let's look at edits from this IP range[37]. From 24 June until 4 July we see that edits were made only in Bosnian football topics. So quick look at sample edit from this range[38] and we see further characteristic to Bakir123 edit details - ( pattern no. 2) "birth date and age" template name from lower case to capital letter, and (pattern no. 4) splitting reflist to 2 cols.
The next day from this IP range we see edits in Stanko Mršić with the same Bakir123's habitual details[39] that ended at 14:11. And what happened then? Account Kirbapara was created at 14:15, just 4 minutes later[40] and continued editing in this article[41] So this is a direct connection between the Bakir123 - IP range- Kirbapara.
Now, evidence no. 2. Let's go back to Bakir123 edits on bs.wiki[42]. On 26 June 2020 at 20:07 he made an edit in article about club Željezničar Sarajevo added a player Luka Juričić to the squad.[43] Now switch on en.wiki and what we see, the same edit made from Kirbapara account at 20:04, just 3 minutes earlier[44]. Next edits on bs.wiki from Bakir123 account on 28 June 2020 in Edin Dzeko article were made between 21:28-21:30[45]. And the same type of edit (updating stats) was made from Kirbapara account at 21:22 just 6 minutes earlier[46].--Oleola (talk) 21:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Oleola Omg man please for the love of God. I have just been checked again and you are still trying. Simple answer, same country, same region, same city and same way of editing which is not incommon. And as Kirbapara stated before, he edited as an IP adress a few years before I ever started to edit. So, with all due respect, will you please stop? Bakir123 (talk) 23:00, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Oh not again, hahaha. Hi there @Oleola! So basically I had this same discussion on my [page]. Check for the unblock request. People were not sure if that account was mine or not. I assured them of that account not being mine, the admin that unblocked even checked it. Yea it is weird that it's simillar to mine, but I don't really know what to say about that further on. I mean, I even had messages over talk pages with Kirbapara and both of us thanked one another for our previous edits. About the gaps... well yea. Both of us live in the same country and are online pretty much at the same time. There were edits that we did at the same time as well. All of this was discussed in my talk page and in a separate page about Kirbapara where it was cleared that Kirbapara is not me. We're gonna wait for him to say something here as well. People did find weird that the editing style we use is similar, but I personally have used edit styles from other users that I liked most. I don't see why the edit styles are weird. Unfortunately, he did slow down with the edits after I got unblocked, that is true.

Here was the admins case back in the beginning of January.

*This user has been checked multiple times in the past with respect to those autoblocks, and I've also just run a check—in my view, this user is  Unlikely to be Bakir123, and those autoblocks are probably collateral damage (i.e. unrelated users sharing the same IP). The behavioral overlap is interesting, but I think it can be explained as two editors who are both interested in Bosnian football articles. For these reasons, I'm closing this SPI without action. Mz7 (talk) 20:20, 4 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. And I really just don't know why I would Sockpuppet again, I just don't know... The 6 month wait was more than enough for me. Now just imagine if we, God forbid, get blocked. Those Bosnian articles, political and sport related, are gonna take a looong time before anyone decides to carry about them a lot. I mean, Kirbapara and me are the only ones that edit those articles a lot, other editors not so much really. Keep that in mind please?? Bakir123 (talk) 09:44, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Well I am not really sure where to start. I would like to think that I am a just guy in a crossfire :). Overlaping shouldn't be that much of an issue as we are from Bosnia, so same time zone and everything. It's normal for us to be online at the same time. Oh look, conveniently I edited just after Bakir123 finished his edit on here... That's a joke btw. I slowed down with the edits for one reason, we edit the same articles. If I, for example, edited the Ermedin Demirović or Vojislav Koštunica ones, then Bakir123 is not going to undo my edits and edit them again and vice versa. It is just that, for example, I go to the FK Željezničar page, I want to edit the player that most recently signed with the club, but then Bakir123 did it before me. I'm not going to then undo his edit. The reason is just that he edits more than me. I, let's say, don't get the chance because he beats me to it. And also I now edit more on Commons regarding images of Bosnian people, I even talked last night with @MelanieN about some of the images. You can check it on her talk page. Sorry to drag you in to this Melanie. I even recently had chats with @Mz7 and with Bakir123. Both on their talk pages respectively. Keep in mind however that I was on Wikipedia before Bakir123 as an IP. Dating back to 2016 I belive, I just didn't make an account until then, it just happened to be when Bakir123 got blocked. I did not know that. It's normal, to me at least, that I start to edit like some other fellow editors if I find to like their way of editing. I just liked the way Bakir123 edited and I started to edit like him, with maybe a bit of a difference, including the use dmy edits and so on. About the reflist|2 thing, I now know that you put the |2 only when an article has 10 or more references. I know that now. :) The auto blocked is, like Mz7 said, colaterall damage. And yea, it is anoying. Also, this is a bit private, I've had in mid January pilonidal surgery (not a big deal) and so I was in hospital five days, automaticaly not being able to edit five days. And back at home, I lay down beacuse I still can not sit down, which means that I can't really spend a lot of time on my computer, which also means a lot less edits. And it will be like that for the next few months as well. That also is a pretty big reason why I slowed down with the edits. Is that not enough of the evidence? Kirbapara (talk) 10:26, 26 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

  •  Endorsed by a checkuser. I have checked Bakir123 and Kirbapara in the past (see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Bakir123/Archive#04 January 2021), but I would like another checkuser to take a look at this case and give a second opinion because the underlying data is a bit complicated and rather difficult to interpret. Now that the two accounts have edited simultaneously, there are new peculiarities that I'm curious about. Mz7 (talk) 19:18, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Overall, the technical evidence would normally be considered "likely", but that doesn't mean anything if these two users happen to have the same interests and are from the same country and editing in the same very wide ranges. There are overlaps on 2+ /64 ranges that I found, but one of the overlaps showed me some key important information. In chronological order on one of the ranges, one user was editing using a newer version of a browser than the other editor who edited later that day on that same range. This means that this is either one person with multiple workstations or with multiple browser versions installed, or this is two different people on two different workstations who are crossing over the same shared range. The latter, to me, is more likely. Given the evidence and technical data that I have, I'm going to say that this is  Unlikely /  Inconclusive. Pinging Mz7. ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 22:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    He's definitely one person, I just posted new evidence above.--Oleola (talk) 21:38, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have to agree with Oshwah's assessment that this looks much more like geographically close editors with similar interest. Closing without action. Sir Sputnik (talk) 22:50, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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