Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Content in Notes column of filmography tables in Singapore artistes BLPs

The following discussion is an archived record of a request for comment. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Should filmography tables of Singaporean artistes' BLP pages contain film/tv related information such as character relations between the cast and the type of roles? – robertsky (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove primarily because they are unsourced, and also do not improve the BLP articles. Expanded reasoning below:

In the category Category:Singaporean actors‎ and its subcategories, there are a number of BLPs which are in the process of being improved on in batches to deal with issues with lack of references and formatting, which arose from the discussion at Wikipedia_talk:SGpedians'_notice_board#Actor_BLP_articles. In process of updating the articles, the articles are being worked in sections by myself mostly with help from other interested passing editors: starting with cleaning up the filmography tables, usage of Chinese characters, and ending with edits and updates to the prose (Personal life, Career, etc.. sections), lead and then infoboxes.

As the content in filmography tables is rather structured, the tables are being dealt with first. An example of the transformation of the filmography tables can be observed in the versions before and after of Paige Chua article.

A contention of such editing is raised by Manwë986 for pages Jeanette Aw and Chen Liping, which is hashed out on their Talk page and in edit comments of Chen Liping article. They wish to have extra information such as character relations between the cast, the type of roles, show information (no. of episodes, format, genre etc) to be retained in the Notes column, i.e.:

• Mother of Belinda Lee, Yvonne Lim and Wayne Chua
• Pairs up with Huang Wenyong
• 1/2 of female co-leads
• 180 episodes long-running drama

(as extracted from Chen Liping article)

If I am to surmise, because "the pages of Singaporean actors should stand out from the actors of other countries. Besides, the extra information is been in actors' pages for a long time. It's important of keeping track of that." (as quoted from their talk page)

My issue with keeping these content primarily one of original research and not being referenced:

1. They are without references. Granted, the entire filmography table may be unsourced. However the titles can be backed by the artiste's profiles with the television network which are in the External links section. i.e. Chen Li Ping's portfolio on SBC and Profile on xin.msn.com. These references will be worked into the filmography table over time. The extra information are usually not present in the sources.
2. In absence of sources, these are original research. For rows with blue-linked titles, firstly we are not to cite other Wikipedia articles, and secondly, the shows' articles are generally in dire state of unsourced/undersourced or questionable GNG as well.
3. These information are better suited for the television/film articles rather than in artistes BLP.

Other editors have other concerns as well:

• In the edit comment of this revision of Jeanette Aw by 116.14.137.245 (talk · contribs · WHOIS): "Removed notes which are unnecessary and also contain potential spoilers with regards characters she plays"
• In the edit comment of this revision of Chen Liping by Justanothersgwikieditor: "undid changes, as per the singapore project talkpage, i am in agreement with robertsky on the table format and the information that should be included (and excluded), specifically " The Notes column should not contain the information of the acting role itself, i.e. being paired up with which other character, whether role is a main, supporting or cameo one, etc.""
• Comment by Drmies with regards to prior editing conflict on Jeanette Aw, as seen here User_talk:Drmies/Archive_128#Talk_page: " the information you keep re-adding is superfluous, excessive, and distracting"

Despite these, Manwë986 insists on getting consensus, and as advised by Elmidae on Talk:Chen_Liping, this RfC is here to gain consensus for the 245 articles (at the present count), and future articles in the category Category:Singaporean actors‎ and its subcategories for the question above.

Additional notes:

1. Some of these articles are not presented in tabular format yet. However, for presentation, these articles may be updated to the tabular format in due time.

2. Notifications to invite any interested editors to participate are being sent to the talk pages of the articles listed below and on Wikiprojects: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Actors_and_Filmmakers, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography, Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Arts and entertainment, Wikipedia:SGpedians'_notice_board, and Wikipedia:WikiProject Singapore. The wikiprojects above are being notified as the articles may not have sufficient numbers of watchers on the Talk pages.

3. The initial focus was on the articles within Category:Singaporean male television actors‎ and Category:Singaporean television actresses‎. However, artistes in the other subcategories of Category:Singaporean actors‎ may have the same issue or are cross overs from the above two sub-categories, hence Category:Singaporean actors‎. – robertsky (talk) 22:11, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

4. A prior conversation about this topic was initiated by myself on WP:DISCORD in #english-wikipedia channel. This conversation was to seek advisory on how to resolve such a dispute and should not be seen as an attempt of WP:CANVASS. – robertsky (talk) 22:16, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove because of verifiability issues; character relations and role types are usually unsourced if not difficult to verify. Sometimes they can only be inferred from watching the show and that makes it questionable and borderline original research. Plus these bits of information, if properly sourced, should be contained within the show's or film's article as they are only pertinent to the show and don't add value to the actor's biography. There really isn't anything much to say about doing the opposite. -- AquaDTRS (talk) 02:45, 5 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Remove as per my comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Singapore#Actor BLP articles and noted above in robertsky's comment. --Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 02:58, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]