Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2016 April 22

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. Consensus is that this could be confusing without supporting evidence. --BDD (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Ontario Highway 401A → Ontario Highway 3B  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

As far as I can tell, Highway 3B was never signed nor commonly known as Highway 401A, nor was any other road in Ontario. For some time the controlled-access portion of 3B was marked on maps as co-signed with Highway 401 (which was actually further south) but the 401A designation has never been used. As an unofficial designation, this could be ambiguous with other freeway spurs and temporary/former routes. Should be deleted. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:46, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

It was an internal unposted/secret designation for many years by the Ministry of Transportation, similar to how they would designate the Queen Elizabeth Way as Highway 451 (or occasionally Highway 1). I think a redirect to Dougall Parkway would be more fitting for this bypassed former mainline freeway. RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 17:03, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Was it actually? I know MTO and the Department of Highways before it had many internal designations like that, but other than QEW I thought they didn't do that for roads which were already numbered, or they used 7000-series designations. Anyway, Dougall Parkway is already a redirect to Ontario Highway 3B. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:11, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure that it was. It was the Queenie, I think, in a little branch around somewhere in southern ontario, between Hamilton, Ontario and Toronto. Will check. Ivanvector probably knows best on this one, but I will check to see if I can make head or tail of it. We have an article on Ontario Highway 401, but then this is just WP:RFD#D2 confusing per WP:XY. I've driven along it but that was maybe a bad map. Si Trew (talk) 17:17, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Since about the 1930s Ontario has generally used B for business and local spurs, and A mostly for former alignments. But the 400 series for the most part are already new alignments for former routes, and as far as I know 401 has never had a major realignment itself - plenty of extensions and expansions, but always on the original alignment. The only 400-series A designation that I know of is Ontario Highway 400A, a very short former part of Highway 400 that connects to Highway 11, where 400 was extended from a point a bit to the south. Downloading in the 90s made a bit of a mess of it, for example now the only remaining officially signed part of Ontario Highway 2 is hundreds of kilometres away from Highway 2A, which might be the spur you're thinking of. That spur also is a remnant of a road which later partially became Highway 401, which makes it also a candidate for 401A numbering. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:49, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete unless @RingtailedFox: can provide evidence of his claim. thekingshighway.ca neither lists Highway 401A nor makes mention of it on the Highway 3B page. Perusing my extensive collection of official road maps (covering every year from 1949 through 1991), I cannot find any route number aside from 3A and 3B along Dougall. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 00:50, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • I was told that the MTO gave that unposted designation by the webmaster of TheKingsHighway.ca, which categorizes and documents Ontario's highways. I'm fine with whichever article you decide to redirect it to. RingtailedFox • Talk • Contribs 06:18, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep, primarily per WP:SNOW, but also because this is actually a move request which is out of RFD's jurisdiction. (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ^(talk) 18:19, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Genie → Jinn  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

I don't think this is what a genie is in common English. Interesting though the article be, this is WP:SURPRISE, delete as as WP:RFD#D2 confusing. It was moved over a long time ago, but here we yse common English; in fact Jinn should probably be moved back over Genie, because that is the common English name, WP:NOTSCRABBLE. But had a requested move to move it to its current name in 2010. Si Trew (talk) 15:28, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget to Genie (disambiguation). Si Trew (talk) 15:31, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as is. Genie refers to the jinn first, and other variants such as Disney's Aladdin or all the products and companies are based on that anyway. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:25, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep as is. As AngusWOOF says, genie in english refers primarily to the jinn. Genie is perhaps more common so I can see the argument to revert the pagemove but in my opinion jinn is the better transliteration (though djinn would be even better). However, any debate about the pagemove should be conducted on the article's Talk page, not in an RfD debate so our opinions in that regard are irrelevant. The jinn page is already clearly hatnoted to the disambiguation page. Retargetting this would add an unnecessary extra layer to our readers' navigation. Rossami (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep per Angus, genies in bottles are primary, but Dzjinn also represent more than just the three-wishes kind -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 06:07, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. "Genie" is the cultural media term, and people looking up such an name will want to be referred to the creatures this archetype was based on. As for the common name being "genie" (I know this isn't the place, but still): that is not the term used by scholars and writers who discuss the original beings. We already have the Genie in popular culture page, which is also linked to now at the top of the Jinn page. Let's rely on WP:PRECISION here. The meaning of the term "genie" is obscure at best, with them more often than not referring only to the archetype of a wish-granting spirit. "Jinn" is unambiguous.Bataaf van Oranje (talk) 09:01, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was keep. --BDD (talk) 20:08, 5 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Gasolier → Chandelier  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

No reference at targetk, it is mentioned there but only as "these were called", which is hearsay without a reference. I think there is a usage of it in a poem of John Betjeman's, but that is the only use I know of. I have tried for years to find it, dictionaries don't have it, and it may have been an invention (the word not the thing) of Betjeman's because I have never seen it anywhere else. Electrolier is quite rightly an article (Betjeman uses that too, once.) Si Trew (talk) 11:38, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Early Electric! Men formed this many-branched electrolier.

Twisted the flex around the iron rope, and let the bulbous vacuum-globes hang clear.
Then with hearts of rich contrivance filled
, of copper, made by the Bromsgrove Guild.

But no gasolier in there. I am just going from memory. He was mostly reminiscing about Metro-land and I presume the "many branched electrolier" was an allustion to the Metropolitan Line spreading out into northwest London (Hertfordshire). Si Trew (talk) 17:41, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment: I created the redirect back in 2009 after making a link on Monmouth (Natchez, Mississippi) in this edit after obtaining information from this document about the house (term found on page 6). I guess at the time I didn't know what a "gasolier" was, so I figured others wouldn't either. After googling, I found out it was a reference to a gas-lit chandelier, so I made the redirect for anyone googling as I did. The link was later removed from the Monmouth page during a copy edit by another editor. I have no preference whether to keep it or not, but there is at least one source that uses the term; I'm sure there are others.--Dudemanfellabra (talk) 22:07, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep - While very rare to have today, these aren't just a matter of distant history but are still collected (no idea if technically used, but bought and sold) right now. Heck, you even see these on eBay. I'd also like to mention that this term pops up in respectable enough online dictionaries. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 04:27, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Look up gasolier or gasalier in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

I would hardly suggest that Oxford is respectable, but then, I am a Cambridge chap :) Si Trew (talk) 08:02, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Hmmm. Wiktionary only has it as essentially a redirect as "alternative form of wikt:gasalier". But I have never seen it spelled gasalier, but occasionally gasolier. gasalier is red. Wiktionary nor any of my proper dictionaries gives it in anything other than I would guess we would say a neologism, gives no etymology or references to where this was used. Otherwise I would say keep as above. The "respectable online dictionaries (OED) which I only have in woodware as the Shorter Oxford Dictionary has no etymology or references; I have about seventeen dictionaries including Webster's and I am not saying none has them, but none explains them. Fairly obviously a gasolier is a chandelier lit by gas, but this is then WP:NOTDIC. Si Trew (talk) 07:55, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The line between an encyclopedia and a dictionary isn't that clean per se. I don't think it would be unreasonable to note in the targeted article, even if just for a sentence or two, that: One)it used to be that "gasolier" and "chandelier" were used synonymously and Two)that overhead lighting as such was a sign of affluence and/or connections since overhead lightening wasn't that common even in fine houses during the 19th century, with one having to use ladders and such to operate them. This is something that's by no means hard to source beyond dictionary entries, particularly this one publication even if it's just a short preview says exactly that. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 00:24, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep per CoffeeWithMarkets. --Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 15:41, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget to Nelson (surname). (non-admin closure) -- Tavix ^(talk) 13:07, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Mr. Nelson → Hit n Run Phase One  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

Propose retargeting to Nelson (surname), with a hatnote to the Prince album. SSTflyer 10:33, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Retarget per SSTFlyer. Mr Nelson (without the stop) is red. Si Trew (talk) 11:41, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget per SSTFlyer. Rossami (talk) 22:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget per nom. A see also can accomodate the album -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 06:08, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget per nom. -- Notecardforfree (talk) 18:29, 27 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget per nom. Rubbish computer (HALP!: I dropped the bass?) 15:57, 29 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was already retargeted to Champney's West as agreed by participants of this discussion. No further closure action is required. Deryck C. 21:34, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Champneys, Newfoundland and Labrador → Trinity Bight, Newfoundland and Labrador  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

There is an article called Champney's West about a town in Newfoundland and Labrador. On the other hand, there are redlinks at Trinity Bight, Newfoundland and Labrador to Champney's Arm and Champney's East, so maybe the status quo ain't so bad. Cnilep (talk) 07:25, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• 'Comment. @Cnilep: what would yout think it meant the restaurant chain that has a branch there (a UK pretending-to-be-posh restaurant chain) or the name of a place? Si Trew (talk) 09:54, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Oops transcluded Csilnep's page rather than pinging. Si Trew (talk) 09:55, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understand the question. Are you asking what I think the title most logically refers to? I don't have a clear idea, which is why I brought it up for discussion. I would say pointing to Champney's West, Trinity Bight, or Champneys (disambiguation) each might be reasonable, as is deletion. But as I said, I have no strong preference. Cnilep (talk) 03:19, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• I seem to have started the redirecting, but it was 10 years ago and I really don't recall the matter. But What Links Here is an article on Ralph Champneys Williams which indicates that Trinity Bay was renamed Champneys after him, so that may be the source of the confusion. Anyone? --Mwanner | Talk 00:36, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Well we don't have Champneys, Newfoundland or Champneys, Labrador. At User:Mwanner's discretion it could be WP:G7 author requests deletion; I am sure Mwanner it made sense a the time but doesn't seem to now. We have Champneys (disambiguation) but I don't see how that would help. The Champneys after which it was renamed is the food chain. Si Trew (talk) 08:29, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retaarget to Champney's West, in Newfoundland and Labrador. Added "exciting place to visit, tourist interest has been boosted by listing at WP:RFD, but with a population of 432, it is hard to know how to kill them". (Well I didn't.) Si Trew (talk) 08:32, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • Done. That striking me as an eminently sensible solution, I have been bold and pointed it as suggested (sadly, minus the comment). --Mwanner | Talk 19:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was retarget all to Aladdin. JohnCD (talk) 14:52, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Magical lamp → Jinn  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Magic lamp → Jinn  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]
• Magic Lamp → Jinn  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ]

These various redirects point to the article Jinn, but there is nothing in the article Jinn to indicate why they are redirected (e.g. there is no clear connection in the article between "Jinn" and "Magic Lamp". The redirects are therefore confusing and if they cannot be targeted properly they are confusing to readers and should be deleted Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:22, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect all to Aladdin. A Google search shows that these are associated with the story of Aladdin. There is also Genie in popular culture, but Aladdin is the better quality article at this point. --Mark viking (talk) 09:09, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentI have combined as I felt best, considering that it was intended to be a multiple listing, but split at what I felt were the possible Alladin ones. That makes User:Mark viking's !vote above well it could be that I am marking his paper. I don't think so, but just in case, because now reaorganised it is not "all" as Mark viking said, so he may wish to recast that. Hope that;s ok. Si Trew (talk) 09:31, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
    • No worries. The magic lamp variants are more closely associated with Aladdin or genies than the other terms, so the grouping makes sense to me. My recommendation stands for this set of three redirects. --Mark viking (talk) 19:27, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect all to Aladdin, noting that probably the targeted article should mention the Genie in popular culture page as well. I think there are actually more parodies, straight references, and the like to the magic lamp genie than to Aladdin and his various adventures. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 15:29, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget all to Aladdin per CoffeeWithMarkets. Si Trew (talk) 15:47, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment Why am I still getting notifications of RFD discussions on redirects I made a long time ago? I was naive back in 2007 and wasn't thinking when I made the redirects. Let it go, I don't care what you do with these redirects I made in the ancient past. Seriously I am pretty tired of getting those notifications on my talk page since I don't even edit articles anymore except on a very few occasions. Blaze The Movie Fan (talk) 21:49, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  • This user's talk page is marked as being retired, but due process is to notify the creator whether retired or not. THere is a way to disappear from Wikipedia, but if the user has said "I don't do much" but still has a current account, there is little that we can do, not to inform the user would be an abuse of process.
    I get notifcations that someone linked some article I translated, often that I forgot that I translated; I tend to be glad to think someone found it useful then, and I don't bitch or preen about it.\Í was already an active creator in 2007 so that don't hold water with me. Si Trew (talk) 22:29, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget all to Aladdin per the discussion immediately above. Rossami (talk) 22:40, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Retarget all to Aladdin per above. Closing admin, please grant my wish ;) --Lenticel ^(talk) 00:15, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Your wish shall be granted if you say the following three words: Wikipedia, Editors, Stupid. :) Si Trew (talk) 08:46, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment a hatnote should be added to whatever target for Magic lantern (disambiguation) and a see also link back from the dab page to Aladdin and Jinn -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 04:26, 24 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the discussion was delete. JohnCD (talk) 11:02, 30 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Detroit-Buffalo → Advance-fee scam  (links · history · stats)     [ Closure: keep/retarget/delete ] 

"Detroit-Buffalo scam" seems like a minor name for this scam, and "Detroit-Buffalo" (without the qualifier) even less so. Results primarily show flights and sports rivalries (and perhaps even bison from Michigan?) -- Tavix ^(talk) 04:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete per Tavix. I have taken little planes from Detroit across Lake Michigan to Buffalo or actually John C. Munro Hamilton International Airport in Canadaland, so that is what it would mean to me, Tavix is right that for me it would mean the flight not anything else. Of course, to others it would mean other things, so it's WP:RFD#D2 confusing, WP:RFD#D1 hinders search. There is a piped reference in the lede to the "Detroit-Buffalo scam" which is linked to the FBI, but not well: I got www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2015/june/financial-fraud (through the FBI's redirecting me from the link in the article) but neither Detroit nor Buffalo, New York is mentioned there, so that's essentially a {{dead link}}.Si Trew (talk) 06:35, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - If anything, this would be primarily associated both with sports rivalries and personal transportation, as pointed out above. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 15:24, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Who was it who, when told by another he had just flown in to New York on Concorde, replied "Oh, I never travel by public transport". Good if true. Si Trew (talk) 15:41, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - ambiguous. To me it's most likely to refer to Advantage I-75, a route for American travellers driving from Detroit to Buffalo cutting through Ontario via Highway 401, 403 and the QEW to avoid tolls in Ohio and Pennsylvania. Although as it turns out that's not what Advantage I-75 was, nor is Interstate 75 the same as the Ohio Turnpike anyway, it runs up through Michigan to Sault Ste. Marie. I'm pretty awfully wrong on this, is what I'm saying. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:30, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Also the Queen Elizabeth Way is not named for Queen Elizabeth, it's named for her mother. Your Friday Fun Fact. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 16:31, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• • • You mean Queen Elizabeth, the Queen Mother. Now your friday fun fact is to work out why she was called the Queen Mother, a title that had not been used for about four hundred years.(Incidentally you might get Canada back next month.) Si Trew (talk) 17:27, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Except Quebec. You don't really want Quebec do you? Even the French don't seem to want it. Canada (except Quebec) is red. Si Trew (talk) 17:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.