Wikipedia:Peer review/Love, Loss, and What I Wore/archive1

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Love, Loss, and What I Wore

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because the article needs feedback.

Thanks, TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:30, 20 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Tony, this is your second PR nom for 20 July. I'll treat this as for 21 July, but please note that PR rules stipulate one nom per day. Thanks Brianboulton (talk) 10:15, 25 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by H1nkles

I'm not sure of your ultimate goal for the article so I'll aim at GA and hope that's correct.

Lead

  • I don't think the lead fully summarizes all aspects of the article namely the themes of the play (you talk about what the play does but not really about the themes of the play, I think there's a difference - see below), and what the play was originally intended to benefit.
  • Refs aren't necessary in the lead assuming they are included in the body of the article. Leave them if you wish it's not a hard and fast rule as I'm sure you're aware.

History

Development

  • More could be added here.
  • Is there info on inspiration for the play?
  • Why did the Ephrons take it on?
  • Is there information on why the particular actors were chosen?
  • I know that the production is very minimalist but I think more on the development than just what the monolgues were based on is warranted. Why did the Ephrons add four more characters beyond the single character in Beckerman's book.

Themes

  • Are there some central themes to the play? What I mean is this section talks about the contents of the monologues and the women's memories but not about themes like love, loss, self-esteem, hope, I don't know I'm just throwing things out there since I've never seen the play. I like the quote about the purse, that applies to this section but the rest isn't really themes it's content that should reveal the theme. I think taking that extra step to reveal the themes will improve this section.
  • BTW I see some themes in the first couple of sentences in the Plot section, that should be moved up here.

Plot

  • What does the info about who originated the Gingy role have to do with the plot? Also the fact that Daly originated the role in NY is duplicated from a sentence in the History section. Not necessary here.
  • "Beckerman's memoir takes as its departure the clothing worn at pivotal times of her life (and by O'Donnell and the author's other friends)..." I thought O'Donnell was a friend of the Ephrons not Beckerman. Check facts here against info in the Development section.
    • I don't understand the issue here.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:46, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      • From the Development section: "The Ephron's weaved together a collection of derivatives from the book with recollections of friends, including O'Donnell." From the Theme (previously Plot) section: "Beckerman's memoir takes as its departure the clothing worn at pivotal times of her life (and by O'Donnell and the author's other friends) and serves as the foundation for the show." Am I miss reading something? It seems like the two sentences are saying O'Donnell was friends to both the Ephrons and Beckerman? Is this the case?
  • Seems like the first para in the Plot section fits better in other sections including the Theme and Development sections. It does nothing really to illuminate the plot IMO.
  • "One character serves as the vixen, another plays a vulnerable gang member from Chicago, a third portrays a brave cancer patient, and the last serves as a mature woman pierced by vivid memories.[2] A character named Heather..." Which one is Heather? Is she the vixen, gang member etc? the writing almost makes it sound like she's another character beyond those already described.
  • "A character named Heather chooses conservative "think" shoes over high heels in her youth, but at a later stage in life shows a preference for high heels.[11] The gang member likes insignias that are prominent on sweaters and their creator." Why did you pick these particular snippets to highlight? What is the significance of these two sentences? There's no tie in with the rest of the play. Also I'm confused by the phrase, "insignias that are prominent on sweaters and their creator". I don't get what that means. Maybe I'm just dense.
  • "Among the 28 stories, the other notable ones are one about the influence of Madonna..." Not good writing here, perhaps "other notable tales include one about..." Can you vary your terminology from using the term "one" repeatedly?
  • The para about the NYT noting three particularly poignent stories. What was emotional about them? What messages were conveyed? Also there's a fourth story in the para, which is counterintuitive to the subject sentence that says three stories were particularly emotional.
  • Ok so several of the stories are mentioned with a blurb describing what they are about, my question is how does it all tie together? Or does it all tie together? Where is the plot moving? How does the play conclude? This isn't spelled out here and I think it should.

Critical reaction

Overall

  • It's a fine succinct article that is missing some key features, which I've noted above.
  • I note that it may be difficult to find reliable sourcing for some of what I've suggested here. I hope you are successful in finding some that will work. Keep in mind the sourcing requirements in the GA criteria. No where is there a demand that every sentence and every fact be referenced. I'm a stickler for references don't get me wrong but the GA criteria are pretty clear on what should be referenced to meet the standards. Just a thought. Best of luck to you. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 23:12, 4 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do you have an opinion on Love,_Loss,_and_What_I_Wore#Off-Broadway_cast_history. Should that content be removed? I was thinking it should be WP:PRESERVEd. Is it really trivia?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 02:39, 13 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I noticed this list, it strikes me as a bit too detailed and may go beyond WP:SS. But it's a judgment call, I think an argument could be made for inclusion. Watch WP:LIST as well, not sure how it could be made into prose but since it is one of the MOS items listed in the GA Criteria I figured I'd mention it.
      • If you don't want to make a call one way or another, I'll let the GAC reviewer decide.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:51, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • As a peer reviewer I don't think it's my call to make. See what the GAC reviewer says, when I review GA noms I look for a cogent argument from the nominating editor that stays w/in the confines of the criteria, if one exists I usually go with it, since the criteria are pretty broad. That's just me though and I'm sure you've had plenty of hard nosed GA reviewers who would disagree with my way of thinking. IMO FAC is the place to be hard nosed and tight on the rules, GAC gives a lot more wiggle room. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 21:03, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • I also saw an expansion tag in the background and development section but nothing in the talk page about this tag or the one in the cast history subsection. Do you know what more needs to be added to the background/development section? I wonder how it can be expanded. I may remove the tag after I give it some thought. H1nkles (talk) citius altius fortius 16:17, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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