Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Mexican National Tag Team Championship/archive2

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:27, 29 April 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

Mexican National Tag Team Championship

Nominator(s): MPJ-DK (talk) 04:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured list because it has the appropriate quality for a Featured List, it has actually been through an FLC before, but failed due to lack of participation sadly. I have kept this up to date, make sure to do format improvements as our FLs evolve. I have pushed 17 lists to FL status and each time I have learned a little. This latest list is the sum of everything I have learned and hopefully produced featured content. MPJ-DK (talk) 04:20, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 11:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*Comments on the lead

- In the promotion field in the infobox, dates for the first two overlap
- The lead says that EMLL had control until 1992 when it moved to AAA, but this does not agree with the infobox
- The fact that it was (apparently) defended on the independent circuit for 8 years should be mentioned in the prose
- No reason for the Commission's Spanish name to be in quotes
- "contested for by tag teams only" - either "contested by tag teams" or "competed for by tag teams", but not what you have currently
- Given that there have been "three a side" and "four a side" titles in Mexico, probably worth clarifying in the lead that this is a "two a side" title
- "but did not defend them between after December 25, 2011" - don't think the word "between" should be there
- "There were been at least" => "There were at least"
- Most team names are in italics but Los Guerreras is not - any reason?
- "was not won not by actual competition" - stray extra word
- Everything in the sentence starting "on occasion" should be in the past tense given that the championship no longer exists
I will get to the tables later -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:30, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- - I believe I have addressed these including clarifying that the championship was inactive for 8 years, then defended once in 2011 and not since. Let me know if any of the above issues have not yet been addressed. And thank you for your time and effort. MPJ-DK (talk) 01:52, 12 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - You say that you clarified that the championship was inactive for 8 years, then defended once in 2011 and not since, but I can't see that mentioned anywhere (unless I am being really dumb this early in the morning). Also, their respective articles indicate that both Octagon and La Parka (RIP) remained in AAA long after their title win, so the infobox saying that these titles were on the indy scene from 2003 onwards doesn't seem to be accurate. And the infobox still has the dates of EMLL (1957-1992) and CMLL (1991-1992), which overlap. If this is intentional/correct, it would be worth clarifying why. -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:35, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Also, if the title was inactive for eight years between 2003 and 2011, then the line "and intermittently until 2011" isn't accurate, because "intermittent" means "occasionally" rather than "not at all"...... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:08, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        I see the confusion that I introduced here. first of all in Mexico most wrestlers who work for AAA (or CMLL) is also allowed to work in the independent circuit on days there are no AAA shows, which is what's happened here. 2) I used the word "Promoted", as they wore the belts to the ring, was shown with them on posters etc. in that period of time, just no known championship matches. But rereading it I agree it is not worded clearly. I will rewrite that portion. note - also fixed the EMLL/CMLL overlap. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:26, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        So I clarified, only defended 2 times between 2009 and 2011 - hopefully that is less confusing? Please let me know what you think. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:27, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Perfectly clear, thanks. I tidied up the language slightly for you -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 15:24, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments on the tables
- Tenses are not consistent ie "Defeat Rene Guajardo and Karloff Lagarde in the final of a tournament." and "Defeated Los Infernales (El Satánico and Espectro Jr.)". Also that first note is not a complete sentence so it shouldn't have a full stop (check for that elsewhere too)
- "La Parka was previously known under the name "La Parka Jr."" - don't think the quote marks are needed
- "Máscara Año 2000 champion with his brother Cien Caras." => "Máscara Año 2000 held the championship with his brother Cien Caras."
- In the tournament bracket, there's no W against the last match of the first round
HTH -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:37, 14 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- - Thank you, I believe I have addressed these as well. I left a full stop on some notes as they are complete sentences, let me know if you disagree with those? MPJ-DK (talk) 03:25, 16 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:14, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

*OK, I think my only remaining query is around the structuring of the refs. If I look, for example, at Bestia Salvaje and Pierroth Jr.'s reign in 1990, the ref in the end column is to note aj in the "footnotes" section, which reads "Duncan & Will (2000) p. 396 "Pierroth Jr. & Bestia Salvaje 1990/05/26 Puebla". This is in turn sourced to ref 16 in the "references" section, "Duncan & Will 2000, p. 397." Firstly, the page numbers don't match, but secondly why is the info sourced to a footnote which is then sourced to a reference which says the same thing? Why not just source it straight to ref 16.......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:33, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- The footnotes are quotes from printed, offline material, with a reference to the specific book / page the quote was taken from. I'll double check on the page references. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:40, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I don't see the need to have it separate. Ref 16 sources the info on that line, so what value is there in having the footnote as well.....? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:01, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I used the suggested format previously, a previous FLC discussion led to the change, honestly I am not sure which one is the correct way of doing it, is there some sort of Wikipedia guideline on which format is prefereable? If I make a change, I just want to be sure I have soemthing to point to in case someone in the future comment. MPJ-DK (talk) 13:40, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - ChrisTheDude - I have made an adjustment to reference #10, combining the shortened citation with the quote, putting it all in the reference section. Before I make further changes I wanted to check that this is an acceptable format? MPJ-DK (talk) 06:31, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        That looks much better IMO..... -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Excellent, I'll work through the references then. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude - I have reworked the citations and footnotes. MPJ-DK (talk) 05:12, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments
- Note d - should be "changed" not "changes"
- Note j needs a full stop
- Note k has a random capital I in Vitoria
- Note l has Guerreras spelt incorrectly
- Ref 35 has a missing [
- So does ref 41
- And ref 64
- Refs 60-63 start with "#ReferencesLucha" which doesn't seem right
- Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 19:14, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - ChrisTheDude - thank you for catching these, I have addressed them all. MPJ-DK (talk) 03:08, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You hadn't quite fixed all the Observer links correctly, but I have sorted that for you and am now happy to support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:48, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Harrias ^talk

Is there an alternative phrasing to avoid the SEAOFBLUE in "..is a national Mexican professional wrestling championship controlled.."?
Foreign language terms, such as "Campeonato Nacional de Parejas", should be in a {{lang}} template, not just in plain italics, per MOS:LANG.
"..Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F. (Mexico City Boxing and Wrestling Commission).." Should have the foreign language term in a {{lang}} template, per above, and the English translation in plain text within the parentheses.
"..by two man tag teams only." No need for "only", and it should be "two-man".
"..was created in 1957 and promoted regularly until 2003, and intermittently until 2011.." Trim an "and": "..was created in 1957, promoted regularly until 2003, and intermittently until 2011.."
Put "Empresa Mexicana de Lucha Libre" in a {{lang}} template.
"..until February 19, 2020 where CMLL.." Two points: first, it should be "when", not "where". Second, you haven't defined CMLL; I assume it is "Comisión de Box y Lucha Libre Mexico D.F."?
The first paragraph, which provides an overall summary, should mention the fact that the championship has been restarted.
The lead states that EMLL controlled it until 1992, but the infobox says until 1991, when CMLL took over for a year.
The Title history table needs row and column scopes as per MOS:ACCESS and detailed in MOS:DTT. This will require changes to {{Professional wrestling title history top}} and {{Professional wrestling title history middle}}.
Manually adjust the sorting in the date column to make sure it corresponds with the No. column: at the moment, when sorted by date some of them appear in the wrong order.
Using "N/A" for Unknown is misleading; the information is not "not applicable", it is unknown. Change it to just that: "Unknown".
The Combined reigns and By wrestler tables also need row and column scopes as per MOS:ACCESS and detailed in MOS:DTT. These are much simpler cases.

That's all from me at the moment. Harrias ^talk 11:04, 25 March 2020 (UTC) (Harrias based on the definition in the N/A article it can stand for not applicable,[1][2][3][4] not available[3][4] or no answer, in this case "Not Available", so it seems to be within the definition of N/A. I am working on the remaining issues. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:34, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have addressed the majority of the issues, only the "N/A" and the row/colscope issues in the template itself. I'll work on the template to get that introduced. MPJ-DK (talk) 14:46, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair shout on the N/A issue; I hadn't considered that. Let me know how it goes with the row/column scopes. Harrias ^talk 15:09, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias based on This comment from the template creator the scope parameters have been implemented. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:49, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support, I've made a few minor edits, but generally, that looks great to me. Good work. Harrias ^talk 16:08, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Just a note: I am taking part in the WikiCup, and will be claiming points for this review. Harrias ^talk 07:24, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for catching those issues and thank you for your support. MPJ-DK (talk) 16:44, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support with two caveats. In Footnotes change "Stats" to "Statistics". Also, Wrestling Observer Newsletter in cite 53 does not use italics because it uses the "publisher" parameter rather than the "work" parameter. You did a great job with a championship that has many holes throughout its history, well done.LM2000 (talk) 22:42, 10 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- LM2000 I have made both adjustments, thank you for your support. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:43, 11 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review passed; promoting. --Pres N 03:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.