Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was not promoted by The Rambling Man 18:27, 26 December 2009 [1].

List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings)

Nominator(s): bamse (talk) 00:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Featured list candidates/List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings)/archive1
Featured list candidates/List of National Treasures of Japan (paintings)/archive2

I am nominating this for featured list because I believe it satisfies all criteria of a featured list and presents a valuable contribution to wikipedia. The list is modeled after the featured List of National Treasures of Japan (sculptures). bamse (talk) 00:06, 11 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from Diaa

A very good candidate for Featured list. I'm very fond of your hard effort and great work towards creating such encompassing Japanese lists. There are however some minor changes that need to be made:

1.The lead needs a thorough copy edit. Try to read it carefully again and fix any stylistic problems...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

User:Truthkeeper88 was so nice to fix any problems. bamse (talk) 17:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2.Two sentences behind each other have the same beginning: "With the rise of" and "With the evolution" try to avoid that.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Will be fixed. bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. See above under "1".bamse (talk) 17:59, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

3.I think an introduction to the lead would be better instead of just going into the history of painting in Japan. Try describing in general the inclusion criteria and the paintings found in this list.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I followed the design of the featured sculpture list which uses a similar historic introduction. The inclusion criteria as far as I know are nothing more than "especially high historical or artistic value" (mentioned in the lead) and these are interpreted by the good people from the Agency for Cultural Affairs who selected these paintings (also mentioned in the lead). Describing the paintings in general means to describe the various styles of Japanese paintings, right? That's what I did in the lead: a description of painting styles in chronological order with links to examples of National Treasure paintings.bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, the structure is subjective so keep it as is, looks good either way...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

4.For the headers: "Author" should be changed to "Artist" and "Pictures" should be changed to "Image"--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Changed "Pictures" to "Image". As for the "Author" column, please note, that it contains not only the name of the artist (painter) but in some cases also names of people who added inscriptions. Shall I still change the column header to "Artist"? bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

5.No need for "A picture of " in the Name.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

6.Why do some paintings miss their images? Like "Mandala of the Two Realms " which can be imported from here and here? Images of paintings who's author died are in the public domain even if you didn't take the image yourself. Please try to fill the missing images.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If I am not mistaken, the pictures you linked to are copies of Kūkai's mandala as are the mandalas at Tō-ji (NT, already has pictures in the list) and Jingo-ji (NT, presently without picture). So all three (the two NT and your linked to mandala) are copies of the same source mandala. I don't think it makes sense to use the picture of another copy for the Jingo-ji mandala. By the same reasoning I could use pictures of the NT Tō-ji mandala for the NT Jingo-ji mandala. Believe me, I tried very hard to find pictures for all of these paintings and uploaded quite a few of them under a PD license. At the moment only twelve out of 157 entries are missing pictures. bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I hope some day images of these can be found on the internet...--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I am sure, sooner or later this column will be filled. The "Priest Zhichang and courtier Libo" I can provide when I have the first reference in the bibliography section in my hands again and have access to a scanner. (Not very soon though.) bamse (talk) 11:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any other obvious problems with the list... Great work! Keep it up... I hope you do the same for the other lists (writings, swords, shrines...).--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 09:07, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comments. I replied above. The shrine list is on the way to be the next candidate. After that, I guess, I'll need a rest ;-) bamse (talk) 10:55, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

1.In the references you have sometimes multiple external links of the same subject like in " "National Treasure: Wind and Rain Landscape Painting; Attributed to Ma Yuan (国宝　風雨山水図伝馬遠筆?)" (in Japanese). Seikado Bunko Art Museum, Introduction to Items in the Collection. http://www.seikado.or.jp/sub030102.htm. Retrieved 2009-05-18." --Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:21, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed (two occurences). bamse (talk) 11:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

2.Wikilink publishers with articles like " Tokyo National Museum" and Washington State University.

I'll do that. Only those that actually have wikipedia articles, or all publishers?bamse (talk) 11:47, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If they're notable publishers then they should have redlinks.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 11:56, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added wikilinks to all notable publishers. bamse (talk) 12:37, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support the list is of high quality and shows great effort.--Diaa abdelmoneim (talk) 13:48, 13 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Info: I added "Snowclad houses in the night" which was designated very recently to the list. The list is now complete again. bamse (talk) 11:44, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved comments from The Rambling Man (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

". Fixed. bamse (talk) 22:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think the notes should follow the section they're used in here, perhaps without a "Notes" section, because they're so far away from the table.
Moved the notes up to the end of the "statistics" section. bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"the name as registered in the List of National Treasures" - not keen on that inline link. You could make it a proper reference.
Replaced the inline link with a proper reference.bamse (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure you need the second level bullets to explain sorting. Just keep it in prose.
Converting it to prose just now. bamse (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Done. bamse (talk) 21:37, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't checked but you are using non-breaking spaces between values and their units, right?
I am generally using Template:Convert which takes care of that automatically I believe. In cases where it is not possible to use the template (for instance ranges of width and height in "Illustrated Biography of Prince Shōtoku"), I put non-breaking spaces by hand.bamse (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes you link folding screen, sometimes not, be consistent and link 'em all.
Linked all of them. bamse (talk) 21:24, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"A six-section folding screens (byōbu), color on paper, 150.2 cm × 365.5 cm (59.1 in × 143.9 in)" - screen (singular) here.
Fixed. bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
colour or color? Be consistent.
Fixed. "colour" changed to "color". 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
What's a mandala?
Not sure what you mean. Mandala is wiki-linked to mandala. Is it necessary to explain what a mandala is in the text? If yes, where?bamse (talk) 20:58, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 9 needs en-dashes for the year ranges.
Done. bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you're going to expand JAANUS for all refs, be consistent and do it for ref 57 as well. And 79.
Expanded in refs 57 and 79 and also in 109 which is now split in five references.bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Sometimes you link Tokyo National Museum, sometimes you don't (in the refs) - why?
No deep reason. Now all are linked I hope.bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 97 needs an en dash for that page range.
Done.bamse (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ref 109 needs a publisher or a work or something like that.
I replaced the unspecific references 109 to the JAANUS dictionary homepage with five references to specific dictionary entries. Also fixed the missing publisher.bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
First biblio ends in a comma?
Now it ends in full stop.bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
So does second and third, while fourth ends in a double full stop.
All biblio end in full stop now. bamse (talk) 20:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Rambling Man (talk) 15:56, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I corrected the list accordingly. The only open question is "mandala" which I did not understand. Please clarify. bamse (talk) 22:21, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re:mandala, okay I missed the link(s), but you should be consistent, as you are with the folding screens - you always place the Japanese phrase after the English. For hanging scrolls, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. The Rambling Man (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose (Please correct me if I am wrong.) you mean hand scroll/emakimono (not "hanging scroll"). Please note that while all folding screens in the list are byōbu, not all hand scrolls are emakimono (=illustrated narrative hand scroll with text and pictures). For instance the last entry in the list ("Landscapes of the Four Seasons") is a pure landscape painting. PS: I unified the spelling of handscoll/hand scroll to "hand scroll" and removed unnecessary capitalization of "emakimono". bamse (talk) 09:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good, thanks for your understanding. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Quick comments –

"the paintings of the Momoyama period was characterised" should be "were characterised" for proper grammar.

Fixed. Truthkeeper88 (talk) 04:44, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For me, the maps to the right of the Statistics table are cutting off the list on the right (I'm on Internet Explorer, in case that helps diagnose the problem).
Fixed. At least on my Internet Explorer it does not cover the maps anymore. Please let me know if you still experience the problem and if yes, which of the tables is interfering with the map and on what resolution you are.
Change header in Usage table from Present Location to Present location, because the second word is not a proper noun.
Done.bamse (talk) 09:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Usually, bibliographies are in alphabetical order. What system are you using here? Giants2008 (27 and counting) 03:19, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I used random order :-). Fixed now. bamse (talk) 09:53, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your comments. I think I addressed all of them.bamse (talk) 17:36, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.