Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Thomas J. Hudner, Jr./archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 23:46, 8 July 2012 [1].

Thomas J. Hudner, Jr. (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

• Featured article candidates/Thomas J. Hudner, Jr./archive1

Nominator(s): —Ed!^(talk) 14:21, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article. It's about a Naval aviator, the last living Medal of Honor recipient from the Korean War. —Ed!^(talk) 14:21, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. As always, feel free to revert my copyediting. Please check the edit summaries. - Dank (push to talk)

• Please check various recent edits to the article. For instance, "Hudner assumed command as commanding officer (CO) of VF-53" is triply redundant, since CO isn't used again in the article; "Hudner assumed command of VF-53" works. - Dank (push to talk) 15:08, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:35, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "Hudner rose to the rank of captain and received the Medal of Honor for his actions in trying to save the life of his wingman, Ensign Jesse L. Brown during the Battle of Chosin Reservoir in the Korean War." Second comma after Brown. Also: This says that he was promoted because he tried to save Brown; was this what you wanted to say?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "disinterested in aviation": disinterested is a tough word; it can be used in contexts not too different from this, but it's generally better to use "uninterested". "disinterested" is more commonly used to mean "impartial".
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "crash land". crash-land.
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "In subsequent years, he has won several awards and worked for various veterans organizations in the United States." An "award" can be anything, so either list the more important awards (or give a general idea), or shorten the last bit to "... before retiring in 1973 and working for ...".
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• "Following the incident, Hudner held a number of positions in the U.S. Navy aboard several ships and with a number of aviation units," The word-to-useful-content ratio is too high; either use fewer words, or give more interesting details.
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Be consistent on whether to use a comma before "Jr.". Btw ... as I've mentioned, "second comma" usage is evolving, and so am I: I used to ask for a comma after "Jr." if a comma came before, but I'm not any more; the period suffices. - Dank (push to talk) 15:39, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 20:33, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Support on prose per standard disclaimer. - Dank (push to talk) 03:30, 2 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• After Ian's comments, I did more copyediting. Sorry about that, chief. These are my edits. (The most recent edits won't show up for a few days; the toolserver needs time to catch up.) - Dank (push to talk) 21:12, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sources and images but no spotchecks, PD attribution tag present. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Captions that aren't complete sentences shouldn't end in periods
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 19:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Use a consistent date format
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 19:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Be consistent in whether you use {{citation}} or the {{cite}} family
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 19:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• FN 46 is incomplete
  • There isn't a footnote 46. —Ed!^(talk) 19:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Location for Appleman?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 19:11, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Naval_Aviator_Badge.jpg needs licensing info for the insignia itself, not just the photo
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 19:15, 29 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Navy_and_Marine_Corps_Commendation_ribbon.svg: description template is broken, missing licensing info
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Vietnam_gallantry_cross-w-palm-3d.svg needs licensing info for original ribbon and device
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• File:Vietnam_Campaign_Medal_Ribbon.png needs licensing info for original ribbon
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• File:United_Nations_Service_Medal_for_Korea_ribbon.png needs licensing info for original ribbon. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comment

• "a class officer, a member of student council and a house councilor", is it house councilor, or house counselor? -- Lemonade51 (talk) 21:09, 31 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • As I understand it, it was a student government position, not a mentoring/social position. —Ed!^(talk) 12:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Source spot check comments:

• I ran the Duplication detector through the article, comparing it against the websites listed (looking for strings of 5 words or more):
  • I found this [2]: wording seems common and probably not copyrightable, so I don't think there are any issues;
  • This: [3]: no issues with this as it is a PD source and the one string longer than five words is the title of an appointment;
  • This: [4]: again PD source, so no major issues. There are a couple of strings longer than five words, but they seem relatively common;
  • This: [5]: again, PD source, no major issues and largely common phrases.
  • This: [6]. Not a PD source, but no issues. Common phrases or titles of works/ships etc.
• Overall, these seem find to me and appear to support what they are sourcing.
• A couple of other issues:
  • date format here: Captain Thomas J. Hudner, Jr., USN, United States Navy, 2000-06-21, retrieved 2 November 2011 (perhaps change "2000-06-21" to "21 June 2000");
    • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • does this need a reference: "In 2000 this award was made retroactive to all U.S. military personnel who served in the Korean War"?
    • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • does this need a second comma: "Hudner was accepted and sent to Naval Air Station Pensacola in Pensacola, Florida where he completed..." (after "Florida")?
    • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 14:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • you use the "cite web" template for the Secretary of the Navy article, but I think it should just use the "citation" template for consistency with the other web sites (e.g compare Citation # 40 with # 41). Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 01:35, 3 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Fixed everything. —Ed!^(talk) 14:47, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks, happy to add my support. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 10:58, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from Noleander

• Caption: "Hudner speaks with Secretary of the Navy Donald C. Winter .." - should say (right) to tell reader which person is Hudner.
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Who? - " Present at the commissioning ceremony in Boston, Massachusetts, were Daisy Brown Thorne, who had remarried, Pamela Brown, .." - Who is Pamela Brown? Brown's daughter?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Crop picture: - The picture with Winter has a lot of wasted background ... a cropped version should be created.
  • Done. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Details? - " ... before intentionally crash landing his aircraft a .." - This sounds like a phenomenally difficult and courageous thing to do. Are there any details on how he was able to pull that off?
  • Not really. Sources just say he landed it skids-up and don't go into detail about the procedure. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Wording: "and "about 90" people in his life told him .." - that "in his life" phrase is a bit confusing, and some readers may not grasp what is being said. Try to reword, maybe eliminate it entirely: " ... about 90 people have told him .." etc
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Date? - " In 1955 and 1956, he was transferred to .." - Transfer seems like a single-point-in-time event, so why 2 years?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Clarify: "Naval commanders felt the pilots on the carrier were better trained, .." - Better than who?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Wording: "Hudner flew 20 missions in-country." - Could "in-country" be explained for readers who are not familiar with the term?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Why question source? - "bombed the crash site with napalm two days later, reportedly reciting the Lord's Prayer over the radio .." - Why use the word "reportedly" there? Is the source suspect for some reason on that one fact?
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Why claimed? - "During his initial years in the military, Hudner claimed to have no interest .." - Why use the word "claimed", is there some reason to doubt the source? See WP:CLAIM.
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Dated? - "He currently resides in Concord, Massachusetts, with his wife, Georgea" - is there a way to reword that so it won't get out of date if he moves or passes away? (WP:DATED)
  • Fixed. —Ed!^(talk) 11:44, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
• Leaning to support, once the above are addressed.

End Noleander comments. --Noleander (talk) 17:31, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• • That's everything. Thanks for your review. —Ed!^(talk) 11:43, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Changed to Support, based on recent improvements. --Noleander (talk) 14:10, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

• Support well done.PumpkinSky talk 23:23, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate note -- Ed, I've just copyedited the lead as I think we had too much repetition of the subject's name. In a long paragraph, or when there's a chance of confusion because you're mentioning other people, it's fine to repeat the name occasionally. Otherwise, you should probably use pronouns more often. Anyway, pls check the rest of the article and see if anything needs to be done on that basis. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:15, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone through and fixed a few more instances of it. I think it's more balanced now. —Ed!^(talk) 15:42, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.