Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Liverpool F.C. in European football/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Ian Rose 12:03, 8 August 2012 [1].

Liverpool F.C. in European football

Liverpool F.C. in European football (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): NapHit (talk) 11:49, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am nominating this for featured article because I believe the article now meets the criteria. One of the main issues in the last nomination was the prose, the article has recently had a copyedit and hopefully these issues have now been resolved. Thanks in advance for your comments. NapHit (talk) 11:49, 9 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments –

  • Not a big fan of what your copy-editor did by linking England and Great Britain in the lead. Such well-known countries really don't need the extra links.
  • "The UEFA Cup Winners Cup was inaugurated in 1960, created for the winners of domestic cup competitions." The re-wording has revealed a little redundancy; "was inaugurated in 1960 for the winners..." would be tighter than what's there now.
  • First two words can be removed from "in order to intimidate the Italians."
  • In the 1981 Intercontinental Cup summary, the score needs an en dash. The copy-editor should have caught that one.
  • "A 6–2 aggregate victory up a tie against Auxerre of France in the second round...". Missing "set" before "up".
  • Conflict between singular and plural tenses here: "This proved the club's most successful campaign since its return to European competition, as they reached the semi-finals, where they were eliminated 3–2 on aggregate by French team Paris Saint-Germain."
  • "but victory in the 2011–12 Football League Cup ensured Liverpool a place in 2012–13 UEFA Europa League." Missing "the" before 2012–13?
  • Did we ever establish LFC History as a reliable source for FAC purposes? Giants2008 (Talk) 00:19, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Done all the above. Regarding LFC History, it is a statistical site which provide the official stats of the club. This is evidenced by the sixth paragraph on this page. NapHit (talk) 10:23, 11 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

  • "...having conceded the fourth place needed to qualify for the Champions League to Chelsea on the final day of the previous league season" the sentence suggests that Liverpool were in pole position for fourth place, but in actual fact Chelsea were there since January 2003. Could be rephrased.
Agree, it wasn't the best wording, had a go at rephrasing it, should be more clearer now. NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Juventus won the match 1–0, Michel Platini scoring" replace comma with semicolon
done NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Liverpool faced six-time European champions Milan in the final at the Atatürk Stadium in Istanbul." would be nice to include when – the specific date perhaps.
done NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The victory also entitled Liverpool to compete" 'entitled' used in the previous sentence, perhaps find another word to avoid repetition
have changed the one in the previous sentence to allowed, should solve the problem. NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
done NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 57 published on BBC News – BBC Sport Online was created in 2000.
done NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
done NapHit (talk) 15:49, 20 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • UEFA Cup Winners' Cup is missing a apostrophe on Winners in "The UEFA Cup Winners Cup was inaugurated in 1960"
done NapHit (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Liverpool entered the 1983–84 European Cup as 1982–83 Football League champions" any reason why that Football League season is wikilinked and the others aren't? Moreover, to avoid ambiguity, they won the 'Football League First Division' – Football League refers to the entire group of teams. Perhaps you can rephrase the sentence to something like "Liverpool entered the 1983–84 European Cup as league champions for the fourth time in five seasons" so it would be more inline.
done as suggested NapHit (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • "German team Hamburg, who had just signed Keegan." could do with a citation.
done NapHit (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
cited this and sentence after as well, not sure if you're supposed to include the link, when its an archive, but done it anyway can always be removed if you're not supposed to. NapHit (talk) 22:17, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support My concerns have been addressed. Happy to support on prose and comprehensiveness. Lemonade51 (talk) 21:51, 28 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Strikes the right balance between maintaining comprehensiveness and avoiding undue weight, which in the case of a club who have played in Europe as often as Liverpool is no easy task. Football-wise its looking solid as I read through it. Just a couple of nitpicks: "KR Reykjavík" suffers PIN number syndrome syndrome. Not keen on the single word easter egg link to 1973 UEFA Cup Final, perhaps it would be better if "second European final" was the linked term. Oldelpaso (talk) 21:08, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the support, have fixed the two nitpicks you had. NapHit (talk) 21:26, 26 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Mattythewhite (talk) 14:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comments
  • File:2005 trophy cropped.jpg is missing alt text.
  • In the fourth paragraph of the lead, Cup Winners' Cup ought to be written as UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and wikilinked.
  • "Shankly was the first Liverpool manager to win a European trophy" - full stop needed.
  • "following relegation from the First Division during the 1953–54 season" - they were relegated after the season, not during it.
  • A few instances of WP:OVERLINK; First Division and Intercontinental Cup are wikilinked in the History section despite already being linked in the Background section.
  • "The club won the match 3–1" - I think team would be more appropriate than club in the context of a match.
  • "Liverpool were eliminated in the second round by Bayern Munich of Germany, 3–1 on aggregate" - feels like there's a word missing before the score. Perhaps "losing 3–1 on aggregate"?
  • "they qualified for the European Super Cup against the winners of the Cup Winners' Cup" - perhaps "they qualified for the European Super Cup and played the winners of the Cup Winners' Cup" or something similar? At present it seems a little abrupt.
  • Very nitpicky, but penalty shootout ought to be penalty shoot-out.
  • "Juventus won the match 1–0; Michel Platini scoring from the penalty spot" - tense change to "Juventus won the match 1–0; Michel Platini scored from the penalty spot".
  • "the FA Cup, and the League Cup" - superfluous comma. Same with "Dutch team PSV Eindhoven, and Chelsea".
  • Not a fan of the use of red in the tables; could a neutral colour be used, as is done here on the corresponding Arsenal article?
  • I also like this on the Arsenal article; any chance of having one here too?
  • As is done here on the corresponding Manchester City article, I'd retitle the present Notes section to References and then retitle the present References section to Bibliography with a level 3 heading.

Thoroughly interesting read and as has been said it's very well balanced. Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 23:44, 30 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments Matty, much appreciated. I've addressed all your comments. Cheers NapHit (talk) 16:26, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Comments. A few follow-ups.

  • The key refers to F and A as denoting Goals for and against, but the tables themselves use GF and GA.
  • The By season table doesn't have a source.
  • I'm not sure we need the date above the By competition table, since none of the other tables use one. I'd remove it and place the ref after "Liverpool F.C. record in European football by competition".
  • In the footnote I'd use East Germany rather than German Democratic Republic, and there should be a "the" before Soviet Union. The sentence needs a full stop too.
  • The key ought to explain what is referred to by GD.

Cheers, Mattythewhite (talk) 22:07, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the comments Matty, addressed them all. NapHit (talk) 22:19, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Being a fusspot here, but the new ref doesn't provide goals for and against in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup or the UEFA Super Cup and doesn't include any details for the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup, the Intercontinental Cup or the FIFA Club World Cup. Mattythewhite (talk) 23:27, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem, I can use the link to this, all the information is there, although you do have to click though a few things to get there it is there, does that suffice? NapHit (talk) 21:29, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'd be happy with that being used, although for the reader's benefit I'd add something like "Access to record in each competition via relevant links" to the reference after the cite template, in this fashion. However, the club's season-by-season record in the Intercontinental Cup and FIFA Club World Cup are not included in this link, so they'll need citing from somewhere else. Also, the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup is given no mention at all. Perhaps one of your Liverpool books could come in handy for the older competitions? Mattythewhite (talk) 23:34, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Stumbled across this, which should do the trick for the European competitions.One of my books does have info on the Intercontitnental Cup, which I'll use, got a ref for FIFA Club World Cup, so should be alright now. NapHit (talk) 13:54, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Those look grand. Hope you don't mind that I've slightly rearranged their composition. Mattythewhite (talk) 14:20, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Delegate notes

  • Couldn't see evidence of an image check above.
  • I have no issue with a hatnote like Main article: Heysel Stadium Disaster at the beginning of a section dedicated to summarising the topic, but it does look a bit odd in the middle of a section. In this case I'd expect the main article to be linked in-line, e.g. piping it to "caused a retaining wall to collapse" or some such. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:26, 4 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes I agree about the hat note, have changed as you suggested. Regarding the image check, should I ask someone to do one, or wait and see if is done? NapHit (talk) 16:58, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Image check I've run through all the images, and their copyright status is fine (File:Bill Shankly statue.jpg appears in line with the UK's freedom of panorama laws as explained at Commons, and the information provided for the release of File:Amicizia.jpg by its creator looks fine to me). Nick-D (talk) 11:03, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tks Nick. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 11:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]


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