- Imaginative Sex (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (restore|cache|AfD)
This is a notable book, since it was a kind of pioneering early BDSM manual, published about 15 years before the term "BDSM" itself was even invented (as was discussed in the introduction to the republished 1996 edition by Pat Califia). This article was suddenly and seemingly rather arbitrarily deleted by User:JzG, even though any problems with article were certainly not severe enough to trigger a unilateral speedy deletion without discussion. It was definitely not an "advertisement" by the book author himself, since he rather notoriously never uses the Internet at all... AnonMoos (talk) 17:54, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- P.S. See also Whatlinkshere "Imaginative Sex" -- AnonMoos (talk) 18:00, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Fine, add some references and a claim of notability, I have nothing against the book, the problem was an unreferenced (since forever) article with a strongly promotional tone created by a WP:SPA. Want it back in place or userfied for rework? Drop me a note. Guy (Help!) 17:59, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- What is the "Single Purpose Account" that you claim was used? Since the revision history is now deleted, I have no way of examining your claim. Also, while I'm willing to do what I can to revise the article, unfortunately, my abilities to fix things will be limited, since I don't have access to the Pat Califia introduction to the 1996 reprint, which apparently contains much relevant information. If I had access to the Pat Califia introduction to the 1996 reprint, then I would probably have already significantly revised the Imaginative Sex article long ago. Furthermore, I would like to know what you claim to be "strongly promotional" about the article... AnonMoos (talk) 18:08, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse based on Guy's comment here. Thanks, SqueakBox 18:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that someone who conducts a unilateral out-of-the-blue deletion on a long-standing article apparently not even marked with serious problem templates should be required to give a much more detailed and specific deletion rationale. If he's not required to give a detailed and specific deletion rationale, then something seems to be broken in the deletion process. It would have been much easier all around if he had simply raised issues on the article talk page which could have been dealt with in a normal manner, instead of going to the immediate nuclear option. That way, I wouldn't be completely and utterly in the dark as to what he's talking about when he refers to "single-purpose accounts", and the specific features which he considers to be "promotional" could have been discussed and dealt with in a normal way... AnonMoos (talk) 18:43, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I disagree, this thread is about improving the encyclopedia, not about Guy and if he made a mistake (which I have no idea having not seen the article but I assume good faith) then his comment here have fully made up for it, I am sure if you now create a good article it will stand. Thanks, SqueakBox 00:48, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I've had a read of the deleted content. It really does read like a publisher's book summary, or something that one would find on the book's dust jacket. The only major contributor was its creator, 209.244.214.97 (talk · contribs). Most other edits were wikification and formatting, and some editorialization that was reverted for being factually incorrect. The article was marked {{essay-entry}} on 2007-02-01. I reserve comment on the deletion, but I do think that, if you have sources to hand (there weren't any cited in the article) you could probably do better from a standing start, and would have had to rewrite the article from scratch anyway. Try page 1359 of ISBN 0933833385, for starters. There's also a magazine write-up by Rick Umbaugh. Uncle G (talk) 20:35, 31 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- Restore Deleted with the rationale "nevr sourced, no sign of notability, looks like an advert" The first is not a criterion for speedy, the second is not applicable to books, and the third is not obvious to me in the least and is probably fixable. Seems descriptive. The essay given is probably a RS, but there ought to be others. Speedy is not where there is reasonable cause for disagreement. But all that is really needed is to carefully re-create it. DGG (talk) 03:58, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn and list per DGG. However, I believe that if an editor in good standing (the deleting admin, for one) believes the article should be deleted, we ought to at least have the community take a look at it. --lifebaka (Talk - Contribs) 05:15, 1 January 2008 (UTC) -- yes, any registered editor can bring an article to AfD. No problem about that. DGG (talk) 11:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn and list at AFD. Seems to be a questionable speedy, and there is a legitimate objection to it. I say discuss it, and possibly give a chance for some sources to show up. --UsaSatsui (talk) 06:37, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn and list at AfD This doesn't fit any CSD criteria, nor does original deleting admin argue that it does. No compelling reason for speedy deletion given, so this article deserves five days on AfD as per normal procedure. Xoloz (talk) 16:29, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- overturn' i dont see books anywhere at the speedy deletion page. Weighted Companion Cube (are you still there?/don't throw me in the fire) 21:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Overturn and list. Overturn partly based on DGG's analysis and partly on the the basis that books by notable author's have enough notability to avoid a speedy. List because I can't find any reliable reviews and hence an AfD review is appropriate. BlueValour (talk) 21:55, 1 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Oh please. Listing is plain silly, the deleted content was trash, AnonMoos wants to write a proper article from sources, I have offered to undelete or userfy to facilitate that, Uncle G, perpetual saviour of all that is redeemable, has pitched in - we don't need to jump through hoops here, let's just apply a little WP:CLUE, eh? I'll userfy it, that's the simplest thing. Guy (Help!) 00:40, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it is a pretty severe misstatement to call this "trash." It's bad now, but could be made into a perfectly respectable stub in ten seconds, if someone found a source. Given that we've got a source (the critical essay -- it's unspecified, but I AGF that it exists), I think five days at AfD is a very fine idea. If you're anxious to avoid extra time, I could speedy close this DRV as "overturn and list" right now. You could also close it with that result by reversing yourself. Xoloz (talk) 02:21, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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