Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Wisconsin Lutheran School

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. There seems to be a waek, rough consensus that Shoreland Lutheran High School is notable and should be kept. The consensus on Wisconsin Lutheran School is a bit more muddy. I think nominating them together in one AfD made it more difficult to discuss them. I'd recommend perhaps renominating Wisconsin Lutheran School on its own to have a more focused discussion. —⁠ScottyWong⁠— 23:47, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wisconsin Lutheran School

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I am unable to identify any in-depth, independent coverage that would meet WP:ORG. As an ATD, I considered a redirect to Wisconsin_Evangelical_Lutheran_Synod#Education, but it's not mentioned there, and don't believe inclusion would be DUE given the breadth of the education system the Synod supports. I also considered a merger with Shoreland Lutheran High School, however that has its own WP:ORG challenges and so this bundled nomination. These schools exist and serve the Lutheran population, but they date from a very different time in school notability and I don't think they meet current criteria.

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Star Mississippi 03:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Education-related deletion discussions. Star Mississippi 03:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. Star Mississippi 03:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. Star Mississippi 03:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Wisconsin-related deletion discussions. Star Mississippi 03:09, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
List-ify there are enough private schools in the state of Wisconsin (and enough discussion of the topic of private schools in the state of Wisconsin) to have a list article that these titles could redirect to. I'm not sure what that list would be -- this is a Lutheran school, but the article List of schools in the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Milwaukee exists. However it's not obvious whether splitting by denomination makes sense. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 04:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - to Racine, Wisconsin#Private schools. For Shorline, target should be Somers, Wisconsin#Education.174.212.212.227 (talk) 10:27, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
~~Comment and a question~~ Redirect - I agree that Wisconsin Lutheran School should be redirected, but it should be redirected to Shoreland Lutheran High School, for which I have today found 20+ newspaper sources, listed them at Talk:Shoreland Lutheran High School, and which is surely enough to demonstrate notability for GNG . How do I split my !vote in this bundled AfD? Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 21:23, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would imagine that's sufficient for the closure. Maybe bold redirected to, but it seems clear to me if I were closing. Star Mississippi 21:51, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Shoreland Lutheran High School, as I have added several sections and multiple RS newspaper clipping sources. It meets WP:NSCHOOL. Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:58, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Delete both Wisconsin Lutheran School clearly isn't notable. Shoreland Lutheran High School has some references that someone could argue is enough to call it notable, but from what I can tell all of them are trivial or WP:MILL local special interest news stories about subjects that every school out there gets similar coverage of. I'd like to see one regional or national story that isn't about something mundane like the school moving. Which is only interesting to a small percentage of locals who have kids that go to the school. In the meantime having 4 citations to a sentence about them getting a STEM classroom just comes off like refbombing. That said, I'm not going to be super upset if just the article for Wisconsin Lutheran School gets deleted. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:15, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – Adamant1, I acknowledge your personal preference for "one regional or national story", per WP:AUD. However, that WP:NORG criterion does not apply to non-profit educational institutions – see the 2nd sentence of the first paragraph of NORG: The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose with the exception of non-profit educational institutions, religions or sects, and sports teams. The alternate criteria for specific types of organizations is WP:NSCHOOL, which says For-profit educational organizations and institutions are considered commercial organizations, so for-profit schools must meet WP:AUD. But Shoreland Lutheran High School is not a for-profit organization, it's a non-profit (a 501(c)(3) organization), and is thus exempt from the criterion you prefer. The appropriate notability guideline is GNG, which it does meet. Cordially, Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 18:12, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Shoreland Lutheran High School and redirect the elementary school. The high school clearly passes WP:GNG with regional coverage. It's unreasonable to expect national coverage which would only appear for a scandal or a shooting, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 21:58, 29 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm perfectly fine with regional coverage. From what I saw it was all local though. It's possible I missed a regional source when I was looking through though. That said, I think sports teams winning regional/national championships or there being notable alumni can get national coverage. Admittingly I'm not super up on articles about schools in America, but from what I've seen there's plenty local schools in India that are covered in national news outlets. The problem is if we go with purely local coverage then it creates a de-facto standard where every school is inherently notable. Since there's almost zero chance of a school not getting local coverage. Which I don't think is in the spirit of the guidelines or consensus. --Adamant1 (talk) 06:57, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A February 2017 RFC: Should secondary schools whose existence is verified by reliable, independent sources be presumed to be notable? shows an extensive site-wide debate with responses nearly even (with a 13-11 ratio favoring the "oppose" position) that resulted in the compromise school notability criteria we have today. Prior to that RFC, our criterion for school articles was evidence of existence, and the compromise was to require all schools to meet GNG or NORG. It's a lengthy RFC, but fairly early in the discussion, editors indicated for-profits should meet the same standards as business organizations, but non-profits should meet GNG criteria. If you haven't time to read the entire discussion, I recommend the summary of the close at the top of the RFC. Grand'mere Eugene (talk) 21:56, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the high school. Most high schools are going to meet our notability threshold, and this one certainly seems to. Rreagan007 (talk) 20:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.