Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Todawata

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. J04n(talk page) 13:08, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Todawata

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Not notable. Deleted by Jimfbleak on 12 February and recreated a couple of days ago using jatland.com as a source. That site is a dreadful open wiki and I actually thought it was blacklisted. There appear to be no reliable sources that support notability. Sitush (talk) 00:36, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. MT Train^Talk 07:27, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nomination as lacking any notability whatsoever. -The Gnome (talk) 11:03, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete – unable to find any reliable, secondary sources. ShoesssS ^Talk 12:53, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a reliable source - http://www.jatmahasabha.in/p/blog-page_21.html , you can see the name Todawata in the list of major Gotras of the Jat Community in India. -Ashok Todawata (talk) 13:15, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Caste-affiliated websites are not reliable sources. Anyone can create them and say whatever they wish, including making the very basic claim that some name or another is indeed a caste. - Sitush (talk) 13:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Dr Mahendra Singh Arya, Dharmpal Singh Dudee, Kishan Singh Faujdar & Vijendra Singh Narwar also mentioned about the Todawata clan in thier book named: Ādhunik Jat Itihasa (The modern history of Jats), Agra 1998, p. 249 Ashok Todawata (talk) 14:46, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

O.S.Tugania : Jat Samuday ke Pramukh Adhar Bindu, page no. 41, s.n. 980 - is another reliable source. -Ashok Todawata (talk) 15:09, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Those, too, are caste-affiliated sources, and the Arya/Dudee etc book is basically pseudo-history. Furthermore, it is not enough that they are mentioned. Sources need to discuss them, not just give a passing comment. - Sitush (talk) 15:22, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jat Samuday ke Pramukh Adhar Bindu and Ādhunik Jat Itihasa (The modern history of Jats) both are written by reputed authors. O.S.Tugania, Dr Mahendra Singh Arya, Dharmpal Singh Dudee, Kishan Singh Faujdar & Vijendra Singh Narwar are notable historians of India. -Ashok Todawata (talk) 16:28, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Are they really? I ŧhought they were Jats, loved by Jats because of their puffery etc (they're all over the jatland website), and dismissed by everyone else. Can you find any non-Jats who cite their efforts? - Sitush (talk) 16:31, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have to comment that the efforts above to present evidence for notability actually weaken the case for notability. -The Gnome (talk) 23:02, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:05, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

~~Keep~~ as per WP:DNB. -Ashok Todawata (talk) 12:33, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – WP:DBN is a policy on how to treat newcomers to Wikipedia, not a policy or advice on why an article should be kept or deleted. Sorry. ShoesssS ^Talk 13:58, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. I can only see a handful of blogs and books written by members from within the clan. No reliable sources whatsoever. MT Train^Talk 06:52, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I do not see the required sourcing to support this article at this time.Icewhiz (talk) 07:04, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The reliable source is here and see this clan name in the given list. This source is from the official website of Jat Mahasabha, an article on this wiki. Jat Mahasabha is an organisation of Jats, the official website of this organisation you can see here - Jat_Mahasabha#External_links. - Ashok Todawata (talk) 14:30, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Here is the list of Todawata peoples in the news:

Bhaskar News Link 1
Bhaskar News Link 2 Person name: Madan Lal Todawata
Bhaskar News Link 3 Person name: Sarpanch Babulal Todawata

For more news sources go here. - Ashok Todawata (talk) 18:15, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You are indulging in full-blown original research to deduce that a surname automatically equates to a clan.~ Winged Blades^Godric 06:09, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete--Per all above and nom.~ Winged Blades^Godric 06:09, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Todawata is not only a surname, it is a Jat clan (Gotra) which is found in Indian state Rajasthan. Do whatever you want but this is truth. The sources are discussed in this page and which is probably not enough according to you. If you agree with above sources then keep this page. - Ashok Todawata^Talk 13:50, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The clans have history associated with them. I do not understand what we are going to achieve by deleting these clan histories. We have to expand their histories to enhance knowledge bank. If some reliable source does not write about them it does not mean the clan is not reliable. Some editors have inherent bias which is unfortunate. I am strongly in favour of keeping not only articles on Jat clans but all other ethnic groups are clans world over. burdak (talk) 17:06, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Eh? WP:GNG relies on verifiability and that in turn pretty much always means reliable sources. Your position that this should be kept even though the subject is not mentioned in reliable sources is simply untenable. What are we supposed to say about it? - Sitush (talk) 17:15, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

How exactly were you canvassed to this discussion?~ Winged Blades^Godric 07:33, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Here on the Jatland wiki by the article creator. I can understand that the creator is new here and will not be aware of our attitude to canvassing but LRBurdak (talk · contribs) should know better. - Sitush (talk) 11:16, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No evidence of notability. GSS (talk|c|em) 10:52, 18 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I think all above evidences are enough for notability. Ashok Todawata^Talk 15:31, 19 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. Lack of significant coverage. PhilKnight (talk) 01:18, 21 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.