Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tara Clark

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Setting aside sockpuppet accounts, the consensus is for deletion. RL0919 (talk) 23:12, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Tara Clark (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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I am struggling to see how Clark passes WP:BIO. I cannot see a pass of WP:FILMMAKER nor of WP:NACTOR. I am surprised at the quantity of WP:CITEKILL. I do see that this was a draft accepted at AFC, and that the CITEKILL has happened since then, but I think the acceptance was the wrong side of the border. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:34, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Actors and filmmakers, Women, and Australia. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 19:34, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment as AfC reviewer but not approver. I had some questions about her notability when I found this in the queue. I don't quite think she reaches creative notability, which is the relevant guideline for her work. I didn't disagree with the approval, but I initiated a discussion on the Talk (Talk:Tara_Clark#Notability about the creator's insistence on removing the notability tag and edit warring to include a blog source. I haven't further researched her but will try to and come back to !vote during this AfD. Star Mississippi 19:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  update to merge with Festival Fatale. (Full disclosure, I just created that). There's a chance Clark could make Creative notability on her work, but I am not finding sourcing to indicate that. However as @Pburka noted below, the festival is notable. Believe Clark can be covered within the topic. Star Mississippi 03:19, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• ::Hi, this should help to confirm creative notability https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/7132251 Biggreeneyes (talk) 10:46, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment. No opinion on Clark's notability at this time, but the Festival Fatale she produced is certainly notable and in need of a page: Sydney Morning Herald, Broadway World, Daily Review, Huffington Post, ABC Radio, The Guardian. pburka (talk) 20:35, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  If she isn't sufficiently notable for her own article, a merger could make sense for her role as she also is active in the Festival's parent organization. Star Mississippi 20:49, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Red link is now blue. It needs some love, but I think it will survive in mainspace. Star Mississippi 00:44, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment - I perused the citations in the article (agree about CITEKILL), and several of them are simple name-checks, blogs, and PR. I added a couple maintenance tags on two of the blogs which probably should be removed (along with the name-checks). Question for the article creator, Biggreeneyes, what do you feel are the three strongest citations currently in the article? Netherzone (talk) 23:12, 24 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

*:The Brag Media (publishers of Rolling Stone Australia)

• https://thebrag.com/bold-raw-new-play-drift-unveiled-july/

  The Daily Telegraph (1.2 million readership)

  https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/city-east/australian-theatre-for-young-people-explores-road-to-young-adulthood-in-two-peas-production-drift/news-story/8de46396b646cc7c8166af092d5e68cf

  And the third one, which I never added would be The National Library of Australia, this should help to confirm creative nobility https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/7132251

  Perhaps you can show me how to add that final one? That would be really appreciated. Biggreeneyes (talk) 10:43, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Biggreeneyes The three items you have chosen here are not references for Clark. The first two are about a play or plays. Even though they are written by her, she is not the focus of the pieces. The third, the catalogue entry, is just that, a catalogue entry. It verifies that the things exists, is about the thing, does not verify even the thing's notability, and has no bearing upon Clark's. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  What do you think are the three strongest? Biggreeneyes (talk) 10:55, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Biggreeneyes It is incumbent upon you as the creating editor (or editor suggesting the article be kept) to prove notability. I do not see Clark to be notable (nor shown to be notable), certainly at present, which is why I have made the nomination for deletion 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 10:57, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Understood. There are 18 citations on the article which cover her stated disciplines and extend international coverage, so I think that makes her notable, however... Biggreeneyes (talk) 11:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Biggreeneyes Please never mistake quantity for quality. A reference analysis shows passing mentions, and one that even fails to mention Clark, And that is just in the first nine. I have left advice on your talk page for improving the article. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 11:15, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  I noticed you started the Tide Mills, East Sussex page, my grandparents lived right near there. Amazing place. Good page.

  Anyway, back on topic, thanks for the notes. Biggreeneyes (talk) 12:47, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Biggreeneyes Thank you for listing what you feel are the three strongest sources. I'm sorry to say that the sources are weak. The Brag seems to be a blog that accepts user-submitted content, basically a press release-like entry that may be native advertising. It's about the play Drift, not her. The Daily Telegraph piece also seems like a modified press release, there is no byline, and it seems like native advertising with a link to ticket sales. The National library citation does not contribute to notability, it simply is a catalog listing that a book or script of Clark's is in the library. Netherzone (talk) 22:11, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete The substance I can find is that Playlab in Brisbane published the script to Jennifer Forever after a fringe production in Sydney, and she was involved (self-appointed?) in Sydney's notable-at-the-time but short-lived Women in Theatre and Screen initiative. The rest is all in independent/fringe theatre in Sydney and the UK. I don't think that adds up to enough for notability. Boneymau (talk) 04:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Hello! Jennifer Forever is included in at the National Library of Australia; this should help to confirm creative notability https://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/7132251 Biggreeneyes (talk) 10:45, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  @Biggreeneyes: A script recorded at a National Library is insufficient for notability. However, WP:CREATIVE#3 says that someone is notable if "the person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series)." If you can show that several of her works "have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews", then you'll have a strong argument for CREATIVE#3. pburka (talk) 13:38, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, sorry I am new to this so apologies for WP:CITEKILL Biggreeneyes (talk) 10:48, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• • Biggreeneyes, do you have any WP:COI to declare? In photos of Clark online, the verdant colour of her eyes appear prominent which seems a co-incidence. Boneymau (talk)
• Keep Starred in the Australian premier and critically acclaimed Jerusalem by Jez Butterworth. I wanted to see this while I was in Oz, it did cause a bit of fuss from memory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WilbrahamMan (talk • contribs) 13:50, 25 May 2022 (UTC) — WilbranhamMan (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • Starred is a stretch, wasn't she just one person in a large cast and not in a leading role? And the New Theatre is not a fully professional theatre, so it is stretching it again to say it is a notable production. Boneymau (talk) 00:15, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Wrote and directed Drift which appeared at ATYP. Clark is very much the focus of the article along with the play, which also adds to her creative notability; she has created subject matter that has been picked up by the Daily Telegraph, which is some extensive coverage. Notable in my opinion. Perhaps Two Peas and Oleg Pupovac need pages although a separate discussionTvman2020 (talk) 16:02, 25 May 2022 (UTC)— Tvman2020 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
  • As far as I can tell, Drift was an independent/fringe production at the ATYP space, not actually produced by ATYP which would lend it more notability. And the Daily Telegraph article seems to be some sort of City East local section (just on the website?), not actually the main Daily Telegraph newspaper. Boneymau (talk) 00:11, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - The subject of this article is in the beginning stages of her career, it is WP:TOOSOON. The article sourcing is weak, consisting of sources that are simple name-checks, or seem to be native advertising/PR-placement/press releases, or blog-like entries. Perhaps in a couple of years she will have received the in-depth significant coverage in independent reliable sources needed to meet WP:GNG and/or WP:CREATIVE. Note to closing administrator: the two K**p !votes above seem a bit dodgy; one is a brand new Single Purpose Account and this is their only edit. The other SPA made 4 total edits since it was created: two in 2018, and two to this AfD. I am curious how they happened to find this particular AfD. Netherzone (talk) 22:26, 25 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WilbrahamMan will hopefully shed some light on that, although I'm unclear if this is SOCK/MEAT at the moment. Star Mississippi 00:43, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

• Stiking socks I can't get the sock strike template right, so I've just struck the comments of those confirmed here: Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/WilbrahamMan. For the closing admin, it's WilbrahamMan, Tvman2020 and Biggreeneyes and others who haven't chimed in here. Star Mississippi 13:17, 26 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - I agree with Netherzone that the sourcing is inadequate. I think the theater company Two Peas has slightly better sourcing, but also not enough. Insufficient profiles of her in independent third party sources. Fails WP:GNG. And it's likely WP:TOOSOONTimTempleton ^{(talk) (cont)} 22:07, 1 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]
• Comment: Many of the sources seem to be local or not about the subject bop34 • talk • contribs 12:48, 6 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.