Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rind Khan Baloch

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Rind (Baloch tribe). MBisanz ^talk 01:28, 31 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rind Khan Baloch (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Subject of article lacks in-depth significant coverage in reliable sources. Subject seems to be related to notable people but per WP:NOTINHERITED that doesn’t count for much as being a son of a notable person doesn’t confer automatic notability. Fails WP:BIO & WP:GNG. Celestina007 (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 19:37, 4 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The person is not only related to notable people like the above user said, but he’s the founder of a main Baloch Tribe. And the tribe is also not just a random tribe, it’s one of the largest (if not the largest) tribe of Baloch, and deleting such an article is totally pointless. So in summary: the article has reliable references and sources (including books and newspapers) and the person is clearly notable because he’s the founder of a main Baloch Tribe, related to some other notable people and is also a Baloch royal. Long things short, it’s totally pointless to delete the article and waste all the effort for nothing. And also, the person has little to no relation with India so instead of adding the article in “India-related deletion articles” move it to Pakistan, Iran and Syrian related articles. If there is some other issue with the article, tell me so I can clear all misunderstandings about that as well. Have a great day. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 14:41, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mowahid Mohsin, what are you talking about? You make an article on a non notable person riddled with unreliable sources such as this rubbish and you are saying it’s deletion it’s pointless? Did you read WP:GNG before creating the article? Can you provide in this AFD reliable sources to substantiate or prove his notability? The other sources in the article aren’t even talking about him.Celestina007 (talk) 16:42, 5 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Firstly, a user like you who has 0 knowledge about the subject and doesn’t respect its evidence by calling related articles “rubbish” should’nt be supervising this matter in the first place. If you are this much concerned about getting the article deleted, at least show a little bit of respect and don’t use words like “rubbish”. Secondly, i have yet to find an article which talks only about him, that’s why I’ve gathered all info on him as I could find and inserted the citation right next to that specific sentence. Thirdly, I know about 2 books regarding this topic and I’m currently trying to find a link to them online for this article, as books are usually sold not openly published. I don’t think waiting a bit longer would do any harm. Lastly, I will add this again that this person has little to no relation with India, then why did you add it in “India-related deletion discussions”? Add it to Iran, Syria and Pakistan related articles instead. If you don’t understand why it should be mentioned in Iran, Syria and Pakistan related deletion articles then again, you should not be supervising this article because you don’t have any knowledge regarding it. Until I find the link to the books I know about, why not move it to Draft space instead of deleting? When I get the links I am looking for and insert them, it can be moved back to main article space and all this trouble shall come to an end. I think it’s a well known fact that the Makran areas of Balochistan were not very advanced in literature 8-700 years ago so it’s understandable why it’s hard to find a suitable reference. And don’t say “the person isn’t notable” because he’s the founder of one of the main and the largest (if not one of the largest) tribe of Baloch. No need to loose your temper and get angry at this matter and call anything “rubbish”. Have a great day. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 02:46, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I just noticed that you removed an entire paragraph on Rind Khan’s personal life from the article. Why? Don’t remove anything until we come to a final decision. And now don’t say that the paragraph was useless because it wasn’t. This article is not even a day old on Wikipedia, move it to Draft space till I find all the needed citations and then I will publish it again, no need to delete it. There are hundreds of other articles which remain published from years and they have little to no references, why not work on getting them deleted? I’m mentioning again, DO NOT remove paragraphs from my article, thank you. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 02:56, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mowahid Mohsin per WP:OWN, it is not 'your' article & id remove it because it reads like a rumor. See WP:INDENT, so people can follow our conversation with ease. Celestina007 (talk) 04:02, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

According to WP:OWN, you also should not be removing content without a good reason and you removed an entire paragraph just because it looks like a rumor to you? I added 2 citations in it didn’t I? Some content of the paragraph were proven by one citation and some others by the other citation. And also I’m still pretty new to Wikipedia so I don’t know much about WP:INDENT. But because Wikipedia states that older and experienced editors should help newbies, you should help me, shouldn’t you? Like I said before, I haven’t found an article which is only dedicated to him and the information about him is scattered all across the internet. And don’t focus on the fact that I called it “my article”, do also focus on the paragraph I wrote above and don’t ignore my concerns I mentioned in that paragraph. I am a student so I don’t have time to read all the Wikipedia policies and similar stuff, so if another problem regarding the article rises do please explain what exactly was the problem instead of getting me confused with links of policies. I mentioned a great alternative for deletion above, do share your thoughts and concerns on that. The article can either be moved to Draft space till I find the link to the book or it's information can be merged with the Rind Tribe article. Either way, whatever is decided or concluded at the end,kindly do let me know before taking the action on it. Regards. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 05:46, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

“Even though editors can never "own" an article, it is important to respect the work and ideas of your fellow contributors. Therefore, be cautious when removing or rewriting large amounts of content, particularly if this content was written by one editor; it is more effective to try to work with the editor than against them—even if you think they are acting as if they "own" the article.”~ WP:OWN

“In addition, you should not undo their edits without good reason.”~ WP:OWN

The above statements are copy-pasted from WP:OWN.

Like I said, you should have respected my work and not call it “rubbish”. It would have been better if you had sorted this out with me instead of going against me. And finally, you should not have removed the paragraph. I’d love to have a user who knows about this subject instead of someone who’s only goal is to get the article deleted. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 05:56, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Mowahid Mohsin, as long as you continue to add gossipy rumors to the article an use forum blogs to substantiate them I’d continue to remove it. Despite the insults hurled at me this far I really shouldn’t continue arguing with you but wait till other editors who actually understand policy come to weigh in with their various rationales. Celestina007 (talk) 06:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean “insults”? The real insult was you calling my work “rubbish” and then saying it’s filled with “gossipy rumours”! And now you are threatening me that you will delete the article I wrote? So be it! It seems you really want my article to get deleted even though I’ve given the ideas on perfect alternativesn; moving it to Draft space or merging it with the Rind Tribe article. You told me that I was saying that the article was mine and I’m mistaken and gave a reference to WP:OWN, I did the same, I also gave you a reference to the same article and told you the you should’nt have disrespected my work or deleted the paragraph because you couldn’t understand it. What’s wrong with moving the article to Draft space until I find the link I search for? Or what’s wrong with merging the article with the Rind Tribe article? Does that violate the policies or guidelines? Obviously no. You don’t do these so it’s clear you want the article deleted for some reason. So me saying the your goal is to get the article deleted isn’t an insult. Like I said, the info on the subject is scattered across the internet, but you keep saying the person isn’t notable. Even if you want the article deleted, at least respect my work instead of discouraging me. And I’ll mention this again, don’t act on whatever conclusion is reached at the end without letting me know, there is no harm in that according to the policies right? So yea, that’s my wish for now. Regards. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 10:36, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that you removed the paragraph again, let me ask you one more time, what’s the problem with it? Are you removing it because it has mistakes in it or just to make the article look short and thus worthless so it can get deleted? Just asking, no offence. If it does have a mistake, like I said before I'll say again, tell me what is the mistake? I don’t think it violates some policy. If it does, tell me regarding it. I told you I’m a student and me and my family are currently traveling so I don’t have enough time to read all the policies. Besides, I’m still a newbie on Wikipedia, you should be helping the new people here instead of making me feel disappointed. Mowahid Mohsin (talk) 10:49, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Rind (Baloch tribe), no indication that the subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources sufficient for a stand-alone article.----Pontificalibus 06:36, 10 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• I note that much of this article is based on a reprint of A Glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province, compiled by H. A. Rose and published from 1911 to 1919. This is not a reliable source, as explained at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 172#Are British Raj ethnographers unreliable?. The addition of this forum post as a source does nothing to add to the reliability of the content. Phil Bridger (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The other sources in the article either don't mention the subject at all, or only namecheck him in genealogies. I can find no evidence elsewhere of anything about him, let alone his being the founder of a tribe. This appears to be legend rather than historically-attested fact, and non-notable legend at that. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:05, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. The plurality of citations are to a forum, which is obviously not acceptable, and the citations to RS barely mention him. Not enough to go on for a full article. JoelleJay (talk) 21:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete i tried to find the sources in their native language "(رینڈ خان بلوچ)", but returned with no indication of notability. It only exist in blogs, forums and in YouTube videos. The subject doesn't quality for inclusion as a standalone article. However, there are still some possibilities to redirect the article to Rind (Baloch tribe). TheBirdsShedTears (talk) 16:14, 26 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Rind (Baloch tribe), the subject does not seem to have received the necessary coverage to pass GNG, but he is mentioned at the target article so a redirect is the best choice. Devonian Wombat (talk) 23:30, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.