Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rana Punja

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to Battle of Haldighati. Spartaz ^Humbug! 09:15, 28 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rana Punja (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Unnotable article of a chieftain. He was neither of royalty nor nobility. Either this article should be deleted or redirected to the Battle of Haldighati. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 09:59, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Happy New Year!!! ^{Babymissfortune} 10:05, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Procedural Keep nominator has not done WP:BEFORE it seems. Someone has tagged the article with "unreliable source", but as far as I can see, this has not been explained on the talk page, where editors could help improve the article. Please also consider WP:ATD. Egaoblai (talk) 11:19, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was the one who tagged it with the unreliable sources tag. Rana 2004 is not a reliable source as publications from Diamond Pocket books are not considered reliable historical books, and Sarbeshwar Sahoo is not a historian and the book is not historically reliable. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 13:28, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Was this brought up to the people who created the article? Is there a previous discussion about why these sources aren't reliable? Egaoblai (talk) 22:54, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Weak Keep I think that the article can be sourced, e.g.: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9].... However, most of these basically say he was a Bhil (Bhils) chief who commanded a body of men in the rear during the 1576 battle. However, there also seems to be a modern day state award named for him (e.g. - some bestowals: [10] [11] [12] - which this seems to be a description of Rana Punja Award.Icewhiz (talk) 23:29, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Icewhiz I know the article is mentioned in reliable sources, but as you mentioned all of them only mention his part in the Battle of Haldighati and nothing about his background, or that he participated in any other battles. mewariindia.com is not a reliable source as a) It is not a historically reliable website and b) It is not an official government site. I could not find any official goverment site of Mewar but I did found the official government site of Rajasthan, the province in which mewar is. See rajasthan.gov.in. I would recommend its redirection to the Battle of Haldighati. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 08:36, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I was responding to the claim this is backed up by Diamond books. It does seem that he is highlighted in modern times as a Dalit of note (see - Class action, Times of India His organisation, Dalit Adivasi Evam Ghumantu Adhikar Abhiyan (Dagar), founded in 2006, chronicles and highlights Dalit contributions to history: Bhilu Rana Punja's role in rescuing Rana Pratap in the 1576 battle of Haldighati and Keerat Bari's part in saving Prince Udai Singh's life. For him, empowerment is also about locating your place in society.) and there is a modern day award - coverage of award bestowal by Udaipur Times. I'm assuming Udaipur Times is reliable enough for stating that an award has been bestowed. Without this modern use of this well documented footnote - I probably would've been neutral / weak delete. But what we have is a very well documented footnote/mention + modern use of this footnote in a different context.Icewhiz (talk) 08:44, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The article is sourced, but wherever Rana Punja is mentioned, he is only mentioned with the Battle of Haldighati, as we cannot find any other reliable sources which mention something else about him, I think it should be redirected. All the sources I've found uptill now only say that he was a commander of 400 bhil archers in the rear in the Battle of Haldighati and saved Maharana Pratap's life in that battle and awards have been commemorated in his name. With only this much content about him, I don't think that the notability of this induvidual article is established. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 10:50, 5 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - I've added a couple sources, I'm not sure if they've been brought up already, but an article about a birthday celebration gives a small amount of detail on his life, including stating he held the title "king" of Bhomat, although I think perhaps the article is overselling a chieftancy.(Goswami, Vajrasar. Birth Anniversary of Rana Punja celebrated at Moti Magri Smarak, Udaiput Times, October 5, 2012) Smmurphy^(Talk) 17:06, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect-- to Battle of Haldighati.Per later arguments of nom.No independent notability, otherwisee.Winged Blades^Godric 14:05, 13 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I am still in favour of redirection to Battle of Haldighati. The information you gave comes from a site and it can give inaccurate or honorary traditional information. All reliable sources only list him as a Bheel Chieftain of Merpur who fought in a battle. As for Rana 2004 by Bhawan Singh Rana, the book is not a reliable source as discussed many times before in talk pages as well. Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 11:02, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

• At the moment notability does not matter as much as the content we can take out from the reliable sources. Seeing the minimal amount of content that does not tell us anything about him except his chieftainship and participation in the battle, I agree with redirection to Battle of Haldighati or as an alternative, this article can be merged into either Bhil people or the Battle of Haldighati. --Hagoromo's Susanoo (talk) 13:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
• Redirect to Battle of Haldighati for lack of reliable sources that discuss the subject directly and in detail. Should such sources present themselves (of which I'm not convinced) the article could be restored. The sources presented at this AfD are insufficient / passing mentions, so a redirect to the battle is appropriate, as typically done in WP:BIO1E situations. K.e.coffman (talk) 04:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.