Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ramzi Maqdisi

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Consensus is WP:TOOSOON. It sounds like there may be better sources in non-english-language publications (which is fine; for english-language wikipedia, we only require that the text of the article be in English, it's perfectly acceptable for sources to be in other languages).

For now, there's already a Draft:Ramzi Maqdisi being worked on, and my suggestion would be to continue to work on it there. A quick look at Draft:Ramzi Maqdisi indicates it's not going well so far. To those working on the draft, please note that we're not looking for more sources, we're looking for better sources. -- RoySmith (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2016 (UTC) -- RoySmith (talk) 15:25, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ramzi Maqdisi

Ramzi Maqdisi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

• None of the references provided in this article actually discuss the subject. I have asked the creator of the article to address this, but so far the request has been ignored. I have looked at the Catalan version of the article, but though it has many more references, none of them appear to be any better than those already provided here: they include the mentions of the subject as an entrant in various film competitions, directory listings, web sites "articles" with no named author (likely not reliable or independent), etc. I do not see enough in either version of the article to make a viable notability argument. KDS4444 (talk) 15:02, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Actor/filmmaker who has had minor roles in The Attack, Omar, and Love, Theft and Other Entanglements, a few stage productions, and has made a handful of short films as director and/or cinematographer, but none of it adds up to WP:NACTOR/WP:FILMMAKER. There's a general lack of sources - even when doing searches on the alternative transliteration "Ramzi Makdessi" - meaning WP:BASIC is not yet met. — Sam Sailor 11:00, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. — Sam Sailor 11:01, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Palestine-related deletion discussions. — Sam Sailor 11:01, 19 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Sam KDS4444 hello again, I will defend my arguments in Spanish because I do think this Palestinian is not such a trivial person in my country either in all Europe, but firts, I would like to ask you to review the references again please in order to update your thoughts. En primer lugar, medir la notabilidad de un actor por el nombre con apellidos que tenga como personaje es totalmente absurdo. Desde el cine de Jean-Luc Godard hasta el cine de Lars von Trier son conocidos por su experimentación en su narrativa cinematográfica. Por la cual cosa, el argumento de que ha interpretado papeles pequeños, es decir sin ser el protagonista, en películas importantes según la perspectiva más hollywoodiense, no supone que sus papeles no sean importantes. ^{[1] [2]} además de que representa las producciones durante la entrega de premios importantes. La entrada de este actor y director, además, no se centra en su trayectoria como actor en películas "importantes" desde un punto de vista difícil de medir, se centra en toda una carrera profesional en el teatro, la interpretación y la dirección de cinem: su primer cortometraje de ficción ha ganado el premio del jurado al mejor cortometraje en el 2015 ^{[3] [4]}. Vuelvo a reiterar que, la notabilidad no se puede medir exclusivamente bajo parámetros de magnitud, se debe medir por el impacto que despiertan delante de difilcultades extremas, y vivir bajo los efectos de una ocupación en este caso, merece todo el respeto de la comunidad de wikipedia para no ser triviales en el momento de admitir o no una entrada. No es que sea demasiado pronto, es que parece que aunque en canales muy importantes como Aljazeera se hagan eco de este cienasta, no cuente ahora mismo porque nos hemos centrado en sus interpretaciones en peliculas de poca magnitud ^[5]. Todas estas referencias están en la página, y hay más, y voy a continuar trabajando en ello. Pero esta página debe analizarse en su conjunto, y no en las impresiones y opiniones de alguno de nosotros.Parauleira (talk) 08:33, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Translation by KDS4444:In the first place, measuring an actor's notability by the names that he has as a character is totally absurd. The cinema of Jean-Luc Godard to the cinema of Lars von Trier are known for their experimentation in film narrative. In this case, the argument that he has played small roles, that is to say without being the protagonist, in important films according to the most Hollywood perspective, does not mean that his roles are not important. in addition to representing the productions during the receipt of important prizes. The entry of this actor and director, moreover, does not focus on his trajectory as an actor in "important" films from a difficult to measure point of view, focuses on a whole career in theater, theater interpretation and direction: His first short film has won the Jury Prize for Best Short Film in 2015. I would like to reiterate that, notability can not be measured exclusively by parameters of magnitude, it must be measured by the impact they have in the face of extreme difficulties, and living under the effects of an occupation in this case deserves all the respect of the community of Wikipedia so as not to be trivial at the time of admitting or not admitting an article. It is not that it is too soon, it seems that even very important channels like Aljazeera echo this film maker, do not count right now because we have focused on their performances in movies of small magnitude. All these references are on the page, and there are more, and I will continue to work on it. But this page should be analyzed as a whole, and not in the impressions and opinions of any of us [translator note: I used Google Translate for most of this, with a few corrections of my own, though something gets lost in the last sentence or two that I could not distill]

• Response in English and Spanish English: While I understand and accept your desire to have an article on this person because of his potential to have an impact on the world, the English Wikipedia requires that its articles be supported by the existing evidence of having had impact, not on what anyone thinks the impact will be in the future. Evidence of potential notability is not considered evidence of actual notability, and this is part of why I nominated this article for deletion. Spanish: Aunque entiendo y acepto su deseo de tener un artículo sobre esta persona debido a su potencial para tener un impacto en el mundo, la Wikipedia en inglés requiere que sus artículos sean apoyados por pruebas existentes de haber tenido impacto, no en lo que alguien piensa el impacto sera en el futuro. Evidencia de notabilidad potencial no se considera evidencia de notabilidad real, y esto es parte de por qué he propuesto este artículo para la eliminación. KDS4444 (talk) 00:25, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Response in Spanish KDS4444: Hola, si sigues la historia de la conversación desde la creación del artículo y desde tu propuesta para eliminar la página, verás que en un principio pediste su eliminación por la falta de referencias. Propusiste la página para ser eliminada mientras estaba editándola: es verdad que no puse la etiqueta de edición larga pero si miramos el historial está claro que hay una diferencia de media hora. Por otro lado y siguiendo las guías de edición WP:FILMMAKER y proporcionadas las nuevas referencias que encontraréis aquí Draft:Ramzi_Maqdisi no creo que se sostenga mucho el argumento de la notabilidad. Parauleira (talk) 11:11, 24 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Unfortunately, it look like the case of WP:TOSOON. I've looked thru the references and tried to search for him. He had minor roles, with no significant reviews of his acting. Notability is not inherited, so being an actor in notable films does not make one a notable person by itself. Also, the award he received is from some private foundation, which is not quite notable by itself. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 13:38, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep. Un actor i director que ha actuat en una pel·lícula nominada a un Oscar a la millor pel·lícula de parla no anglesa Omar (film) és prou notable com per tenir una entrada a Wikipedia i no és WP:TOSOON perquè tenir impacte no es pot mesurar pel temps. Un director que guanya un premi del públic en la seva primera obra de ficció Solomon's Stone (film)^[6], encara que el premi pertanyi a una fundació privada, mereix una entrada a Wikipedia. Un actor que representa en el Festival de Cine de San Sebastián i els mitjans de comunicació la pel·lícula The Attack (film) mereix una entrada a Wikipedia ^{[7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13]}. Las referències apleguen mitjans de comunicació massius de grans grups de comunicació internacionals, com ara el grup PRISA i Alarabiya. Un cineasta que s'estudia a prestigioses universitats, com la Universitat de Barcelona en dos màsters ^{[14] [15]}, mereix una entrada a Wikipedia. Un actor que protagonitza una obra com ara Martin Luther King Jr^[16] i que forma part d'una investigació de teatre experimental publicada ^[17], mereix una entrada a Wikipedia i és totalment una persona important en el món de l'art. Per aquests motius seria veritablement lamentable que l'entrada d'aquest actor i director de cinema i teatre palestí no tingués una entrada a Wikipedia.Vikiub (talk) 14:06, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Response Being in a film nominated for a major award does not usually confer notability— winning that award confers notability; winning an (so-far) non-notable audience award doesn't usually confer notability— if that award becomes notable, it might confer notability; teaching at a prestigious university does not usually confer notability— having an appointed chair at that university or being chair of a department there might confer notability. And none of these things is as convincing as evidence of having been the non-trivial subject of multiple reliable independent secondary sources. Yes? KDS4444 (talk) 18:21, 25 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• PLEASE check Draft:Ramzi_Maqdisi for new references provided. Parauleira (talk) 20:23, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• May need polyglot assistance. This BLP is about a person named Ramzi Maqdisi, now at WP:Articles for deletion/Ramzi Maqdisi, who is of Palestinian origin born in Jerusalem and thus also goes by his name in Arabic (which I won't attempt to paste so as to avoid unintentional mangling), who was educated in Spain,[2] and has gotten at least some French-language[3] and English-language[4] name-drops for his film-work. I don't seen sufficient depth of english-language sources to satisfy the WP:GOLDENRULE, but I suspect there might be considerably more WP:NONENGLISH press coverage in arabic/spanish/catalan/lebanese/french/etc, since those are the places where his films were made and/or funded. I also suspect that googling for the english-name 'Ramzi Maqdisi' will not turn up as many hits as googling for the arabic name. Can somebody with more multilingual facility than myself, please take a look, to see if such arabic/spanish/etc RS can be found? 47.222.203.135 (talk) 16:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• What I did find, in case it helps anybody.... The most well-sourced-in-english-sources film seems to be the short film Draft:Solomon's_Stone_(film) (not to be confused with Solomon's Stone the novel), see pdf page#13 here.[5] It was the pre-act at the Gene Siskel Film Center at a film festival this past April,[6] three years later, which seems noteworthy to my eyeballs, but I know bupkis about short films in Arabic! Because it was a film where Maqdisi was the screenplay author, the director, and the lead actor (of only two credited), sources which are specifically about the film MIGHT also count towards Maqdisi's wikipedia notability, more than would usually be the case with a film where the proverbial cast of thousands participated; I'm not sure what wikipedia policy has to say on such matters. Here is the IMDB entry, which I know does not count towards WP:RS and WP:GNG, but has a partial filmography.[7] In addition to his fiction, he has been publicly political about Israel, as in this probably-non-RS petition.[8] He also was the filmmaker of a video about disabled students in Palestine, funded by Maqdisi's own Quds Art Films but then broadcast on Al Jazeera Media Network.[9] He was mentioned a couple times (name and photo and a quote about his interpretation of his character's backstory) in this ebook, not sure if it counts as WP:RS.[10] His work won the Twin Cities Arab Film Festival award,[11] dunno if that really counts towards notability,[12] and as part of that the Film Society of Minneapolis-St. Paul published a link to a brief blurb on the director Maqdisi.[13] "He studied theater at the University of Barcelona and filmmaking at the Catalonia Filmmaking Studies Centre (same?)."[14] His new one-hour-long documentary will be at Queens World Film Festival (same?) in March 2017, as well.[15] Those turned up in a quick search, but as I say, only for the english-version-of-his-name, and only really looking for english-language-cites. 47.222.203.135 (talk) 16:56, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. insufficient majorroles, so far in his career. I agree it's TOOSOON DGG ( talk ) 19:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete per DGG - he's no major roles, and a couple appearances are minor and/or redshirt (character) roles. The sourcing is especially poor - all blogs, self-created, or small film fests' pages. Bearian (talk) 13:58, 28 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, I created Palestinian law, so I am not biased against his nationality. Bearian (talk) 13:59, 28 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I have modified placements of some statements within this AfD, as they were inappropriately placed. Content has not been edited. Nördic Nightfury 11:26, 30 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.