Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Patricio Moreno Toro

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Following the work by User:Possibly and others seems it's clear there is no longer a consensus to delete and a shift in those proposing deletion that the article does now achieve some degree of tenuous notability under WP:ARTIST. Seddon talk 22:24, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Patricio Moreno Toro

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Patricio Moreno Toro (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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I created this article but another user removed most of its sources. now, I'm not sure about the notability of subject. Please check it out.Mahdiar86 (talk) 20:49, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Chile-related deletion discussions. Spiderone(Talk to Spider) 22:11, 29 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 07:04, 6 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I have made an effort to locate independent, reliable sources and found no significant coverage that could be used to sustain an article. Vexations (talk) 12:29, 6 September 2021 (UTC) Update: Weak keep. I still have some reservations about what we can reliably say about the subject, and an institution like the Museo de Arte Contemporáneo Ateneo de Yucatán (MACAY) is really small, and I'm not 100% sure that it's all that notable, but well done finding all that. Vexations (talk) 22:26, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep . If someone can find a reliable references his work is really being in the permanent collections of Museo Nacional de Bellas Artes, Santiago, Chile; Museum of Modern Art, Managua, Nicaragua; Museo Nacional de Arte Contemporary y Diseño, San Jose, Costa Rica; Smithsonian Institute, Washington, DC, USA; Museo Nacional de Belles Artes, Havana, Cuba as claimed he easily passed WP:ARTIST. But personally I could not find any support for those claims. Arthistorian1977 (talk) 10:19, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Delete - I tried verifying the collections, and was unsuccessful. Does not pass WP:GNG nor WP:NARTIST at this time. I did however find that he was in two group shows at the Museo de Arte y Diseno Contemporaneo in San Jose, Costa Rica, but two group shows is definitely not enough to pass notability criteria. What can sometimes be problematic, is that not all museums have digitized all of the works held in their collections; some museums have not digitized their collections at all. Nevertheless, there needs to be some sort of proof that the artist's work is in notable collections to pass #4 of WP:ARTIST. If that is found I'd be willing to change my !vote. Mahdiar86, you created the article and also nominated it for deletion, is it possible for you to shed some light on where you found the information? That might help. Netherzone (talk) 14:18, 8 September 2021 (UTC) Passes WP:NARTIST, criteria 4. Changing my !vote to K**p now that three verified collections have been found. Great detective work, Possibly and others! Netherzone (talk) 19:50, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete for failing WP:NARTIST. There is no substantiation that proves claims of being a permanent exhibit. Ifnord (talk) 18:10, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I put a note in at Possibly's talk page to do a museum archive search to see if we can verify that his work is indeed included in one of those major collections which would establish notability per criteria #4 of NARTIST. Possibly is an expert at hunting down that kind of material in RS, and we should wait until he gets back to us before we close this AFD.4meter4 (talk) 18:26, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I was pinged here and had a look around for museum collections. I got the sense that there may be coverage out there, but that it is in Spanish and it is probably under the name Patrico Toro.
  • I verified the De Young Museum collection (see here).
  • he has personal papers in the Smithsonian Archive of American Arts: link.
  • He was in four shows at the Costa Rican Museum of contemporary art and design. His CV says he is in the collection, but no proof of that found.
  • Mentioned here as part of a Museum of Finer Arts Houston show.
Artists love to inflate their CVs with claimed accomplishments. Some collections I checked did not verify. However, in this case, more often than not, a little scraping below the surface turned up some connection to the museum in question, as above. Haven't looked at the article, so no comment beyond that. It would take more time than I have tio figure this one out, but it seems like it might be heading in the direction of being kept. --- Possibly ☎ 18:59, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Let's add the City of Berkeley to the collections list. There is also an interview at the Museum of the Yucatan. --- Possibly ☎
There is a Spanish sculptor named Jose Manuel Patricio Toro who is not the same guy. --- Possibly ☎ 19:39, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a third collection, the Museo de Arte Contemporáneo de Ciudad Acuña, which has no wiki page but looks legit. That makes two museums and a city with his work in permanent collections. The article needs work, but keep.
I'm not sure some of these are actually Patricio Moreno Toro. His name in short would be Patricio Moreno, not Patricio Toro. Especially that Yucatán source, isn't likely to be him (Spanish language sources will never mention him as Patricio Toro; I would expect an English language source to incorrectly name him Patricio Toro though, but I am not convinced it's the case here). BTW, the Smithsonian reference is out of question. --Bedivere (talk) 21:55, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Bedivere: I saw biographies listing San Francisco, Cancun and Chile as places of residence, so they all make sense. The De Young and Berkeley collections are him without a doubt; he lived in SF. The Smithsonian AAA collection makes sense, it is an exact match for his name in the article. Here is an article in "Diario de Yucatan" that shows him, with pictures, calling him Patricio Moreno Toro, so the Yucatan link makes sense, unless there are two Patricio Toro artists in the Yucatan. If there are other links you find dubious, let me know and I will check them. I think it is pretty routine for artists to use a nom de plume/stage name, just ask Robert Allen Zimmerman, Reginald Kenneth Dwight or Declan Patrick MacManus. --- Possibly ☎ 01:35, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I'm conscious of the use of pen names. However, I incorrectly thought you performed the search ignoring that Moreno was his paternal surname (and so, the primary one). I have just checked the Spanish-language article and it states he also uses the "Patricio Toro" name. So, I no longer put these references in question. I still think the article is written in a promotional, non neutral way and, if kept, work should be done on it. --Bedivere (talk) 02:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Netherzone: nice work finding that. Here is the live version. That makes three collections, so it seems like a clear k*eep now. --- Possibly ☎ 19:03, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment Thanks for all participated users in discussion. After concluding, I'll move article to draft space for improving and working on it and finding more sources about subject to mention all his exhibitions.Mahdiar86 (talk) 13:59, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
There is no consensus to draftify. The subject is notable. Improvements can be made in main space.4meter4 (talk) 15:36, 16 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Mahdiar86:, an administrator or uninvolved person will close the discussion, so please don't move anything. --- Possibly ☎ 04:29, 17 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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