Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Otago University Debating Society (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. There is a weak consensus to keep, although there a strong merge strain as well; this close should not be construed as prohibiting a merge if someone is inclined. There is however, no consensus to delete. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 17:36, 21 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Otago University Debating Society

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not all university debating societies are notable. the first 3 references merely confirm it's the university's oldest society. that in itself does not make it notable. most of the coverage is local. gnews merely confirms that it holds meetings. LibStar (talk) 23:40, 11 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of New Zealand-related deletion discussions. -- Bduke (Discussion) 04:06, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment editors should read the commentary on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Otago University Debating Society to come to a considered decision, Stuartyeates (talk) 08:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Either keep or merge into a new combined page for Clubs and societies of the University of Otago. WWhih is exactly what I said last time - things haven't changed to make this any more or less notable since then. The society is still the oldest university society in the entire country (not just in Otago), which does make it notable, and former members include many of the country's movers and shakers (many years ago, when I attended a couple of their meetings, the society's president was Michael Laws, for instance). Grutness...wha? 08:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Schools-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 19:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:12, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I think a Merge to a combined page for Clubs and societies of the University of Otago is the best option. I don't see anywhere that the debating society is the most prominent or even a leading student organization at the University of Otago, unless I am mistaken. The "student association" or "debate club" is not always the leading organization at a college. For example, the admissions ambassadors at my alma mater was a small and minor club, but is the leading and most socially prominent student organization at the college where I teach. At many other colleges, fraternities, sororities, and Rotaracts are the most important clubs. We need proof, in other words, that the debate club at Otago is a punctilio of social cache′ or academic honors there. Bearian (talk) 21:29, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- FWIW, New Zealand universities do not have fraternities or sororities; neither do they generally have rotaract or any similar organisations. I don't think that OUDS would necessarily qualify as the most prominent organisation among students at OU, but historically it is the most notable, the Otago University Students' Association having developed out of it in 1890. Grutness...wha? 21:47, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I looked over some of the sources online. The debating Society appears to have been quite the famous group 100-120 years ago. Once notable, always so. I'm changing to a keep. Bearian (talk) 20:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and reference better. A simple Google search here has multiple newspaper articles on the society starting in 1894. Performing a Google search is the minimum to do before commenting in a debate, something you probably learn as a member of the Otago University Debating Society. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 21:53, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

my nomination contained a google news search. the coverage does not qualify as indepth. it merely confirms the society existed in 1894. LibStar (talk) 22:50, 12 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Redirect to University of Otago#Student life. The organization certainly deserves to be mentioned in the University article because of its longevity, but the independent reliable sources are just not there to justify a free-standing article. Yes, local newspapers from the 1890s are found which mention it, but in those days it didn't take much to get into the papers. More significant is that a search of Google News for the last 50 years [1] finds absolutely nothing. --MelanieN (talk) 04:33, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I've added some more detail (and four more references^{00:52, 19 January 2011 (UTC)}) about notability in the lead – sorry about the late notice but I've only just discovered the scanned 19th century newspapers at http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz. I'm still convinced that debating was (briefly) an important part of the development of NZ self-government in the late nineteenth century, which is why it was one-third of the New Zealand University Games and why kiwis still point to Ernest Rutherford's debating successes at Canterbury before he became a big crocodile at the Cavendish. The problem is we need more participation by NZ-based editors, which deleting this article is unlikely to encourage. - Pointillist (talk) 23:42, 18 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.