Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Murat Pak

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. – Juliancolton | ^Talk 19:51, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Murat Pak

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There are a lot of sources in the article as it stands, but 90% of them are simply checklists of what Pak has done during his career. The article comes across as slightly promotional ("here are all the things he's done") with very little in the way of significant media coverage or personal information. I cannot at this time determine what makes him stand out from the rest of the graphic designer/developer crowd or makes him notable per Wikipedia's standards. Primefac (talk) 19:04, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Jinkinson talk to me 19:36, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - agree with nom. --Why should I have a User Name? (talk) 19:56, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - A designer from Turkey that worked with big brands (check his previous works on http://undream.net). Most of the sources linked are respected/known design magazines of his subject therefore WP:GNG is met and most of his achievements are clearly notable. Possibly, the way the article written is causing a problem; which can be fixed. As a designer who follows design communities up close I can say that this guy one of the main sources of inspiration for many designers in multiple design branches - and one of the current leads of Today's motion design.--Gnihton (talk) 20:41, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as promotional crap that belongs elsewhere, Gnihton should also stop using WP to promote himself!. –Davey2010 • (talk) 20:58, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No need to use Wikipedia for promoting. Seqqis (talk) 22:40, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Comment What makes you believe that I am the person? Moreover, the content is not promotional at all. I am a designer, I have studied his work as well, and attended a few of his lectures. --Gnihton (talk) 22:55, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Delete promotional article by WP:SPA per WP:PROMO. Logical Cowboy (talk) 23:03, 29 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:42, 30 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Should be corrected in the most recent version. --Gnihton (talk) 09:16, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I would love the judgement to be fair. All of the promotional looking stuff was removed or corrected by an experienced member. Right now there is nothing I can do to make the negative commenters happy however if you think fair you will also agree with me that the article deserves to stay, specially compared to many of the stuff with a lot less content and notability. --Gnihton (talk) 16:50, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gnihton, as I mentioned to you in IRC, all that the article needs is a few more references that don't simply list Pak on a credits page and discuss him as an artist. At the moment there is one (maybe two at a stretch), which isn't really enough to make him notable per Wikipedia's standards, and I can't find any more (or I'd add them myself). Primefac (talk) 22:59, 2 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: ~~Keep~~ Added more information upon request by Primefac that are more than just credits, corrected and replaced some of the references to reflect the same, added MAD event and a few more. How does it look now? --Gnihton (talk) 06:33, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The reason for AfD nomination should be gone, if not, minimized by the changes until now. Have a look. Also keep in mind that some of the sources look like "front page" with no relation to the person of interest (for instance http://www.madinspain.com/) - do not get tricked by this, just scroll down a bit and you will see big chunks of data about the person of interest. Sadly, single page design is hype right now so it's not possible to link the exact (scroll) location of the single-page-design website to show the perfect reference. Should not be a problem though, since the sources are fitting to WP:GNG. --Gnihton (talk) 09:13, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Quantity does not equal quality. These are just not the kind of facts and citations that demonstrate a designer's notability. The interview with Awwwards is a good example. The brief header says he is a "multi-award winning designer" but the only awards they mention are the 2010 and 2012 Vimeo Awards, for which he was short-listed, but which he did not win. see also the web site touted by the author http://www.madinspain.com/ which has four sentences taken from a press release or resume, but without any solid facts, all hype. So it doesn't really matter that the site has no indicia of reliability. Much of the coverage cited in the article is incidental. Some are just images. It is possible that he might pass WP:NOTEBLP if good solid coverage in reliable independent secondary sources could be found, but this article does not do that. It depends on primary sources, mentions, related sources and unreliable sources. Currently it does not pass the guideline for creative individuals. --Bejnar (talk) 22:46, 6 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Bejnar really hit it on the nose. Unfortunatley if I'm running a google news search or a newspaper search and I can't find diddly squat, chances are that there's not significant coverage to pass WP:GNG. While you may be plenty of sources where he's been mentioned, they seem to be minor mentions and sourcing. Now, granted, Notability isn't temporary, but check the link Benjar gave above on our guideline for creative individuals Dusti^{*Let's talk!*} 02:35, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Bejnar you have a lot of valid points on what you write, however I find your comment quite misleading in terms of presented data. For instance I'm not sure how you didn't saw the huge portion in http://www.madinspain.com/ - featuring the POI as one of the presenters of the event. Anyway, there is a lot of information floating around the web, I will gather them and keep improving the article. One of my problems is that this person is mentioned/interviewed/featured in a lot of books or magazines (which I have some of them physically) however I can't find any digital versions of those sources, which makes it impossible for me to cite them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnihton (talk • contribs) 12:01, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I did see the section that listed him as one of the thirteen presenters, it was not huge. Those were the five sentences that contained only conclusions, no facts, and read as "hype". That is not what we mean by substantive. --Bejnar (talk) 14:58, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Gnihton, there is an option for citing books in the "Cite" dropdown menu (select "Cite" when you are editing, then chose "cite book" from the "Templates" dropdown menu). The cite helper gives an ISBN lookup (meaning you don't have to enter all the info in manually). Primefac (talk) 12:07, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Primefac, thanks for the info, but how will it be proven that the stuff I cite are actually in the book(s)? --Gnihton (talk) 13:02, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

At the risk of sounding terribly sarcastic: libraries still exist. Primefac (talk) 13:43, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough --Gnihton (talk) 14:00, 7 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.