Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mark Marissen
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Keep Snowball closure Enigmamsg 19:55, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Mark Marissen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Marissen is a Canadian Liberal party "backroom boy". As such does not fit the Wikipedia guidelines for notability. Recommend delete. Suttungr (talk) 17:24, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- VERY STRONG OPPOSE. Marissen is not a mere "backroom boy", he is a major strategist and organizer for both federal and provincial Liberal parties, and is married to former Deputy Premier Christy Clark, and was top man of the "Martin machine" in BC and nationally; too many reasons for notability to provide here; his article is badly in need of updating, not deleting.Skookum1 (talk) 17:28, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Just being the spouse of a notable person does not confer notability in of itself. See WP:BIO#Invalid criteria. Suttungr (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Response Well, OK, then, I'll put in the rest of what I left out: married to Christy Clark; together the two of them have been described as "BC's power couple" - at least they were until their house was searched as a result of warrants in relation to the BC Legislature Raids (nothing was found and no charges laid, although Marissen's campaign organizers are in court for money laundering, influence peddling etc) and evidence in relation to that case has shown that those aides ("Basi, Virk and Basi"), acting under party campaign (ahem) orders, conducted dirty tricks against opposition politicians; also acting as one of Marissen's lieutenants was Erik Bornmann, who (not under Marissen's directions but in a later capacity) arranged bribes associated with the rigged sale of BC Rail, involving Basi, Virk and Basi, and has turned Crown witness. For more on all of that have a read through these items and these and these Marissen was in politics before his wife and is far more powerful and influential than she is; it's a given that backroom boys make a point of keeping out of hte headlines; backroom bosses (which is what Marissen is), even moreso. Your claim that a party organizer of this calibre and rank, who is widely associated with many major politicians and has been in charge of highly significant campaigns, is not notable, reeks of either cupidity or collaboration. Worth mentioning that Marissen himself COI'd on his article, which is one reason it's as thin as it is at the moment; I and others have not bothered to update it much since; the BC Leg Raids article needs more work first, but the scope of Marissen's political activities is much, much broader than any second-hand connections to that scandal. He, and his wife, may yet wind up being witnesses at the trial (which still hasn't opened and is only in pre-trial hearings/delays)(, which has been described as "the trial of the century" and "the most important political trial in BC's history". Like most politicians and political figures, their articles are subject to "neutralization" (Clark's article is also very thin on the ground, though more from inaction than censorship, than has been the case with Marissen's article). A major media consultant/spin doctor and organizer/trainer of same - that's who he is. That he tries to remain invisible is only being helped by your AfD.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Good grief! All this passion for a Liberal Party hack? It's making me go all misty. Now if only all this effort were to be channelled into a better article... Suttungr (talk) 00:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Not just "a Liberal Party hack", but a BOSS hack, the hack (well, maybe outranked in that by Patrick Kinsella). The reason I've avoided adding material to the Marissen article is twofold; one is I have very strong feelings about the criminality of the current BC government and its cronies, whom he helped to elect; the other is that a bunch of Liberal SPAs made life miserable on this article, and on the Bornmann article, and the BC Ledge Raids article, and "exhaustion" took root, as well as aversion. As others here have noted, there's no doubt this guy is notable, and to me highly so. Who's not notable, however, is his brother Michael Marissen....you should have started an AfD there, not here....and postscript, I was informed privately by a reader of this page that Christy Clark and Mark Marissen have divorced, I haven't seen any news copy on that (yet). There's plenty of information that belongs in this article; but it's being monitored, naturally enough as an article about a master spin doctor would be, and any major changes will be subject to edit war and picayune debates....and, again, I'm too POV to add to it (you'll find my username in the Bill Tieleman and BC Mary blogs and on many Tyee forums, so I've recused myself for the most part, other than watching for "political spam" and censorship edits....Skookum1 (talk) 01:24, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Good grief! All this passion for a Liberal Party hack? It's making me go all misty. Now if only all this effort were to be channelled into a better article... Suttungr (talk) 00:44, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Response Well, OK, then, I'll put in the rest of what I left out: married to Christy Clark; together the two of them have been described as "BC's power couple" - at least they were until their house was searched as a result of warrants in relation to the BC Legislature Raids (nothing was found and no charges laid, although Marissen's campaign organizers are in court for money laundering, influence peddling etc) and evidence in relation to that case has shown that those aides ("Basi, Virk and Basi"), acting under party campaign (ahem) orders, conducted dirty tricks against opposition politicians; also acting as one of Marissen's lieutenants was Erik Bornmann, who (not under Marissen's directions but in a later capacity) arranged bribes associated with the rigged sale of BC Rail, involving Basi, Virk and Basi, and has turned Crown witness. For more on all of that have a read through these items and these and these Marissen was in politics before his wife and is far more powerful and influential than she is; it's a given that backroom boys make a point of keeping out of hte headlines; backroom bosses (which is what Marissen is), even moreso. Your claim that a party organizer of this calibre and rank, who is widely associated with many major politicians and has been in charge of highly significant campaigns, is not notable, reeks of either cupidity or collaboration. Worth mentioning that Marissen himself COI'd on his article, which is one reason it's as thin as it is at the moment; I and others have not bothered to update it much since; the BC Leg Raids article needs more work first, but the scope of Marissen's political activities is much, much broader than any second-hand connections to that scandal. He, and his wife, may yet wind up being witnesses at the trial (which still hasn't opened and is only in pre-trial hearings/delays)(, which has been described as "the trial of the century" and "the most important political trial in BC's history". Like most politicians and political figures, their articles are subject to "neutralization" (Clark's article is also very thin on the ground, though more from inaction than censorship, than has been the case with Marissen's article). A major media consultant/spin doctor and organizer/trainer of same - that's who he is. That he tries to remain invisible is only being helped by your AfD.....Skookum1 (talk) 04:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: Just being the spouse of a notable person does not confer notability in of itself. See WP:BIO#Invalid criteria. Suttungr (talk) 19:15, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment How do these [1][2][3] stand up as reliable sources? I'm staying neutral at the minute...Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 18:20, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Response Good grief:
- BC Business is the leading business magazine in BC, in fact something of the voice of the BC establishment.
- PublicEyeOnline is one of BC's leading political blogs/zines, in a province where the only real news is mostly found in such places; but even Canwest, the main manipulator of half-factual information in BC, is quoted at the top of that page thus: “...the go-to source for B.C. scuttlebutt.” – Canwest News Service
- Seven Oaks is a leading political cultural magazine in Canada. "Leadng" not in terms of distribution, but reputation.
- I suggest you educate yourself about Canadian politics and publications before wondering out loud how it is that prominent sources are actually prominent (they all are). Political blogs from BC have been accepted as valid - and can be shown to be more reliable than CanWest, in fact - look through the materials I linked in my response to Suttungr above; to make it quick and easy use "find/search on page" to find the relevant information about Marissen; there's no doubt this powerful political figure is notable; he'd rather not be, but it's far too late for that....Skookum1 (talk) 04:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Those sources are ones that I found after a search when tryin to establish notability. I put them here for the consideration of others. One would have thought that people wanting to keep the article would moderate their tone when replying, seeing as how I'm trying to establish notability in order to keep the article. You would do well not to alienate those trying to help by suggesting they "educate themselves". Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 04:57, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I took your tone as meaning you were implying that they weren't reliable/notable, or that you hadn't heard of them (perhaps not being from BC/Canada); they're all notable and reliable sources, as are those I linked in my response to Suttungr.Skookum1 (talk) 05:03, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Those sources are ones that I found after a search when tryin to establish notability. I put them here for the consideration of others. One would have thought that people wanting to keep the article would moderate their tone when replying, seeing as how I'm trying to establish notability in order to keep the article. You would do well not to alienate those trying to help by suggesting they "educate themselves". Dylanfromthenorth (talk) 04:57, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Response Good grief:
- keep plenty of coverage on google news specifically referring to this individual, not his wife. Seems pointless providing a long long list of diffs here. Polargeo (talk) 19:51, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Neutral. Artilce has multiple issues from March '09, but nothing has been done. On the other side it does fit noteability. --MWOAP (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Response, well since the AfD is based on alleged non-notability, and you agree it does fit notability, shouldn't your vote be Keep or Oppose??Skookum1 (talk) 04:49, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep subject has a notable role in politics and should stay. Have a look at the news link. That the article may need work is not relevant to the issue here which is whether the subject is notable. --KenWalker | Talk 04:55, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep. The article isn't in good shape, but the subject appears notable. PKT(alk) 15:50, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Appears to be notable and sourced. There's no wikipedia policy that says the movers and shakers ("backroom boys") are not notable, so the argument for deletion is not supported by policy. Another notable backroom boy. Even his wife has an article. --IP69.226.103.13 | Talk about me. 21:56, 4 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Snow Keep he may be "best known for being the husband of former deputy premier Christy Clark", but he is notable for being Dion's chief organizer, and co-chair of the Liberal's election campaign. DigitalC (talk) 02:33, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Speedy keep Seems a biased nom. Alio The Fool 18:48, 5 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.