Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Margit Sebők

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 21:14, 20 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Margit Sebők

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This page does not have any in-line references. I cannot find any information on the web that does not refer back to this page. There is a Margit Sebők born in 1939 but I have no idea if it is the same person WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 17:55, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Artists-related deletion discussions. Gabe Iglesia (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Hungary-related deletion discussions. Gabe Iglesia (talk) 19:24, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Hungarian names are of the form [Surname Forename]. I've added a "find sources" template for Sebők Margit. She was not born in 1939 – signed and dated work from 1916 visible here. Some biographical information here (which is not a reliable source for our purposes as far as I can see), also images of some of her work. It'll need a Hungarian speaker to tell us whether any of these results show notability. I can't trace the Cyclopaedia of Hungarian Painters and Graphic Artists cited as a reference. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 19:46, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There are two artists called Margit Sebők (1879-? and 1939-1994). They might be notable but I haven't found anything about them but very short biographies on the websites of auction houses. (I'm Hungarian.) – Alensha ^talk 23:48, 13 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, does not meet WP:NARTIST or WP:GNG, Cyclopaedia of Hungarian Painters and Graphic Artists nil library holdings ditto Hungarian translation of title (note, this is a gtranslate)(is it known by another name?), gsearches of artist and book brings up nothing (surname 1st or 2nd), looks like no hungarian wp articles on Sebők, i am not hungarian-speaking so of course will be happy to change to redirect/merge or keep if an editor can come up with some (indepth) sources that show notability. ps. hi Alensha, a short bio mite be ok (as one notable cite if a WP:RS) if it shows that Sebők won critical acclaim and/or won any notable art prize, has her works shown/in collections of notable galleries. if you could post a translation on her talkpage that would be great, thanks. Coolabahapple (talk) 05:33, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 21:00, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment – a quick look on Hungaricana gives 257 hits for "Sebők Margit". Not all are relevant, and Google translate struggles with Hungarian. Alensha, would you be able to determine whether articles like Galériaavató kötődéssel or Eg ész évben sokszínű program (to simply choose a couple from the first page of search results) would be useful in this discussion? There are lots of further search results. She does seem to have had a gallery named after her. — Hebrides (talk) 22:17, 14 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Margit Sebők (1879) has an extremely short biography here. It says that she studied in an art school (which was the predecessor of the Hungarian University of Fine Arts) between 1889 and 1903, then she lived with Paris and Southern France with her husband, who was also a painter. Later they lived in Szeged and in Budapest. That's all the internet knows about her.
Margit Sebők (1939) is better attested. Here it says she attended the teacher's college in Eger until 1961, worked as a teacher until 1988, had exhibitions in Budapest, Poland and Paris. Her oil paintings and drawings were inspired by nature, she painted plants, animals and people. The first article linked by Hebrides is about a gallery being named after her in Berekfürdő, where she spent her childhood. It is a little more detailed, but not much. The second article is not really about her, it details the programs in the gallery. I have to admit I'm not very knowledgeable about modern art, and I'm unable to tell whether the gallery was named for her because of her significance in the art world or because of her being the only somewhat famous person from her small village (about which even the mayor states in the article that it hasn't got much of a history). – Alensha ^talk 02:55, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've browsed through those old newspapers at Hungaricana, only a small number of those 257 occurrences of the name are about her, but some of them seem good enough. Most of them are county newspapers (reaching 3-400,000 readers), 1, 2, 3, these would be enough to prove her notability in Hungarian wikipedia but I don't know if they're enough for English wikipedia's notability rules. If the article can stay, I can write a short bio of her in English. – Alensha ^talk 03:09, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment This was the first time I nominated an article for deletion. Thanks for the prompt and thoughtful comments. Also for the hands-on research(!). I would like to add another clue to the mystery of Margit Sebők. Looking on the original author's page, User contributions for Annaauc it appears that user was editing on Wikipedia for two days in 2013, then vanished. The first day Annaauc was adding stubs for Hungarian painters. The notable painters have been expanded over time, the rest left to languish.WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, I am leaning toward keep after Alensha found those sources. Makes me think that its possible even more may exist in different languages. Maybe not all articles produced on Sebők are on the web/digitized? It's harder to judge when you don't speak the language. The sources found by Alensha seem to be substantial and independent, several even include her photograph and examples of her art. I am curious what others may think. Thsmi002 (talk) 17:27, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I think Alensha is referring to Margit Sebők born in 1939, rather than Margit Sebők born in 1879 (the page nominated for deletion).WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 20:07, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- I agree, it seems like available sources can barely demonstrate that the 1879 person existed. My comment is directed to the other Sebők that Alensha and others found more sources for. Thsmi002 (talk) 21:00, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I should have made it clear that most of what I've found is about the younger Sebők. I don't know if the older one is notable for wikipedia. – Alensha ^talk 20:20, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've rewritten the article, now it's about the painter born in 1939. I've found two different dates for her death, 1994 and 2000, the latter must be correct as it's on the commemorative plaque created by her son. It looks somewhat odd that a source I used for the wikiarticle mentions 1994, I don't know if I should mention it in the article that some sources erroneously report her death year as 1994. – Alensha ^talk 20:44, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Keep – thanks to Alensha, I consider we now have an article that meets the General Notability Guideline. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to using this AfD nomination to make a positive improvement to Wikipedia. — Hebrides (talk) 21:32, 15 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, i have struck out my "delete" now that article is about Sebők the younger, well done Alensha. Coolabahapple (talk) 13:05, 16 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, Coolabahapple :) Thanks to everyone who contributed. – Alensha ^talk 06:08, 17 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.