Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mackerel Snapper

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Aside from the nominator there is only one other argument for deletion based solely on WP:IDONTKNOWIT. There are some good suggestions for redirecting but the consensus for that is not strong enough for that to be the result here so that should be left to the normal editing/BRD process. Ron Ritzman (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mackerel Snapper

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Violates WP:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Even if it was this expression seems rather obscure. Sources cited include a slang dictionary, which quotes an episode of M*A*S*H, and a letter from a member of the KKK. Google searches bring up WP copiers, one more instance of use (as a joke in the 1980s), and a lot about fishing for the two species. Jaque Hammer (talk) 14:19, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Christianity-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:58, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Delete pointless article.. as a catholic I have never heard this term, and it is not worthy of being on wikipedia as an article. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 23:53, 28 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:IDONTKNOWIT is one of the arguments to avoid in a deletion discussion. For what it is worth (which is about as much as your "never heard of it"), this non-Catholic has heard the expression. LadyofShalott 01:19, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Without good sources for something more than a dictionary definition, redirect this to List of religious slurs, which already lists it. LadyofShalott 01:59, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Lady of Shalott. I don't think this term has any potential beyond a dictionary definition. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:46, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This term is notable and can be covered in an encyclopedic fashion, even if it is now passe. It is a part of history. Simply add "Catholic" to Google News Archive and Google Books searches for a wealth of references. We have a category called "Pejorative terms for people" that has 250 articles. We have a category called "Ethnic and religious slurs" that has 116 articles. This particular slur was discussed in a New York Times book review Something's Fishy on September 6, 1998. It has been discussed in the Chicago Sun-Times, the Buffalo News, the St. Petersburg Times, the Chicago Tribune, the San Jose Mercury News, the Richmond Times and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Novelists including Stephen King, John Irving and Tony Hillerman have used it fictionally. Former U.S. Senator Jeremiah Denton was criticized widely for using it. It has been discussed in many books, including Jan Harold Brunvand's American Folklore: An Encyclopedia, Jonathon Green's Words Apart: The Language of Prejudice, and Gordon Rottman's FUBAR: Soldier Slang of World War II. I am just scraping the surface of the reliable sources discussing this term. On a personal note, I was raised Catholic although I left that church over 40 years ago. I heard "mackerel snapper" many times (usually jokingly) as a child in Detroit. Cullen328 (talk) 05:30, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can and will these sources be used to make this something beyond a dictionary definition though? LadyofShalott 01:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect per LOS. While I've heard the term myself, I'm at a loss to imagine what substantive could possibly be said about it beyond what's already listed in the List of religious slurs article. Ravenswing 05:55, 29 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- I wonder whehter this might usefully be converted to an article perhaps Catholic fasting dealing at length with Catholic doctrine and tradition, modern and historical, on abstinence from meat on certain days. This used to be an important aspect of Catholic Christianity and needs an article. If we have one somewhere already, this one should be merged to it. Peterkingiron (talk) 12:55, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep if it can be sourced per Cullen. Seems to be beyond a mere dictionary term. JASpencer (talk) 20:32, 30 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Common usage years ago. Racial slurs are a part of Wikipedia. Religious ones should not be exempt. More of a joke by the 50s or so. Should have references though. Student7 (talk) 00:59, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 21:50, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia. It was used by Robert Mitchum in the film Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:01, 5 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a good historical article for a phrase. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 06:47, 6 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.