Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of songs about rain

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. The list as currently published includes songs that *are* and are *not* about rain. As argued below, the inclusion of the word "rain" in a title or lyric may or may not be a literal use of the word "rain". The title itself is therefore open to too much possible interpretation - after all is Riders on the Storm a song about rain? The arguments therefore show that the list is unmanageable in its ability to appropriately discern between songs truly about rain, songs with rain in the title, songs with rain as a simile, and on top of that songs about storms of the rain variety but don't include the word rain predominantly. Therefore, as a wholly undefinable and unmanageable list, it cannot meet WP:LISTN the panda ₯’ 11:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

List of songs about rain

List of songs about rain (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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WP:Trivia. Song lyrics extensively use Simile, Metaphor, Allegory, Alliteration (sometimes words are added just because they sound nice), and every other literary and poetic device known. Sometimes a song’s meaning could be as plain as day, sometimes it is so obscure that it is possible not even the songwriter understand what the meaning is! This "list" recognises this by adding, quite blatently, "Other songs with "rain" in the title" In the very recently closed as delete, CfD for songs about rain one editor wrote, For just two other examples of the problem, "Don't Rain on My Parade" and "Set Fire to the Rain" have been included here, even though they both use the word "rain" only metaphorically, and are in no meaningful way about rain per se. Richhoncho (talk) 00:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Not worthy of its own article. 舎利弗 (talk) 01:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete - What next ? "List of songs about sun" or "List of songs about snow" ? ... Utterly pointless article. →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 02:30, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The topic is notable per WP:LISTN. The nomination misunderstands WP:TRIVIA which has nothing to do with topics being unimportant. Some songs about the rain are actually quite important to their cultures - see Song of the Rain Ceremony, for example. Andrew (talk) 17:52, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. Songs 'about rain' which are important to a culture might possibly merit discussion - in the context of an article about the relevant culture. A decontextualising list is trivia. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:16, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:19, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• @舎利弗: @Davey2010: @AndyTheGrump: please take another look now that I have had time to add grounds for notability, from the very extensive media coverage on the topic of songs about rain. – Fayenatic London 19:59, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Fayenatic london: - Thanks for making the effort in improving the article but I still believe listing songs to do with rain is imho pointless .... →Davey2010→→Talk to me!→ 20:07, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. The nomination was extremely hasty; the nominator left me a note in which he states that he assumes I was joking, but in that case I would have cheerfully deleted it myself under WP:G7, as the deleted page would still serve for admins as a handy record of the former category contents, pending a promised centralized discussion on categories for songs by topic. I was intending to review the remaining songs to see what else from the original list was not really about rain; that was the point of splitting the list with a section heading "Other songs with rain in the title", to demonstrate that these had not been forgotten, then split the list into two, and delete that section. However, on a cursory look around the internet, "songs about rain" turns out to be a notable and well-covered topic, and some songs which I added into that section are included in the independently-published lists. Well, unlike a category, a list can add commentary to indicate the nature of the song. – Fayenatic London 19:59, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
• As for the centralized discussion: the nominator's comments in the CFD appeared to commit to starting this, and I spent some time looking for it before closing the discussion. After giving a bogus link, he has now stated on my talk page that he intended to do this after the CFD was closed, but that was not clear. – Fayenatic London 19:59, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

  I would rather have an article about Rain in songs or Rain in literature, rather than an arbitrary list. If it can be established that there is enough coverage on the topic of rain in songs—that is those sources extensively talk about the influence of rain in songs, as opposed to making a list of songs that mention rain—I will gladly change my opinion. 舎利弗 (talk) 20:48, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep - Passes WP:LISTN, the list topic itself has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources:

• "30 great songs about rain". Daily Telegraph. February 2014. Retrieved 23 May 2014.
• Andrew Abramson (14 June 2011). "20 Greatest "Rain" Songs of All Time (to stop the drought)". Retrieved 23 May 2014.
• Matthew T. Hall (28 February 2014). "22 best and 3 worst rain songs of all time". San Diego Union-Tribune.
• Omer Ali (20 Feb 2014). "The 10 best pop songs about rain". Daily Telegraph. Retrieved 23 May 2014.

 – NorthAmerica¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment. As Northamerica1000 suggested the lists themselves may be notable, but that does not pass down to each and every song that uses the word "rain" in the lyrics or title. nor does it support WP creating such lists WP:NOTINHERITED. The references that are there only confirm the song has been included in such a list, not that the song is about rain. We have a serious WP:OR problem. You could suggest that the article title was changed to "Songs included in lists of songs about rain." That would be alright (but not necessarily of any use!). There is a suggestion that "Some songs about the rain are actually quite important to their cultures" and I certainly agree with that and would like to see that article, but this is not and never will be that article. The core problem with "Lists about XXX" is what constitutes a song to be about rain - and as you can see from my table below (extracted from those listed as "Songs on the topic of rain" all but two fail the criteria of "being about rain"

--Richhoncho (talk) 10:06, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.