Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of people called Rabbi

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep, though a rename seems advisable. WjBscribe 00:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

List of people called Rabbi

List of people called Rabbi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

This list should be renamed List of rabbinic roles and titles (see: Category:Orthodox rabbinic roles and titles as a similar example.) There are also a number of errors in the list that need to be corrected, including the sentence at the start "some rabbis have achieved such fame that they are widely called rabbi even by people not their followers" (since when is being a "rabbi" dependant on "fame" or not?) and that about the person Rava which was a name, not a title. IZAK 18:17, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: This article looks like one of those aids to Talmud study, which may be useful (I have several) but not suitable for an encyclopedia entry. How is this really Notable? In what context is it Notable? HG 20:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion: Why not just put this data in paragraph form within WP:Rabbi? You/we could expand it into a nice subsection; e.g., those who were denoted by there bare term [maran, rav, etc] and those who have other monikers (the mehaber, etc].HG 20:19, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Eliyak: The list if so poorly set up it amounts to very little. In fact it should be deleted and reedirected to List of rabbis. IZAK 20:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Looking back, my gut response was to Keep because it was being nominated under mistaken pretenses. The concept of people known solely by the name Rabbi (and derivatives) seems like an interesting factoid and may be notable on that grounds. As far as I'm concerned, if people find that valuable, then the page should continue to exist, but I don't really have strong feelings against its deletion. I've changed my vote to weak keep accordingly. --Eliyak T·C 05:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Aliyak: At no point do I request that this article be "deleted" -- this is a request to RENAME it so that it will be more accurate as to what it's truly about. As you know, a true list of "people called Rabbi" would need to have a few million Rabbis on it, which ain't gonna happen in any case, so why keep a title that is bound to cause confusion and unfounded expectations? IZAK 06:46, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • keep per above--Sefringle 20:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep if you want to rename it, be WP:BOLD rather than bring it here for deletion in order to re-create it in a different form; if someone else wants to have 2 different articles, 1 people called "Rabbi" and 2 about roles and titles, go for it and create them. Both would be great additions to the WP. Carlossuarez46 22:40, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • I was being nice, the list does not deserve to exist. It is (at bets) a mirror of List of rabbis and should be redirected there. IZAK 20:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete - Wikipedia is not a directory of loosely-associated topics. Every person who was a rabbi, or every person who was ever called rabbi, is not related to every other person called rabbi. The list is indiscriminate and given the tens of thousands of people called "rabbi" in the history of the world, unmaintainable. Otto4711 01:49, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per WP:NOT#DIRECTORY. This list would effectively be a directory. I agree a list of tens of thousands of rabbis would be impossible to maintain, impossible to verify, and prone to vandalism. If individual rabbis are notable, they should get their own articles. As the article stands it has only a handful of people. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment An article about rabbinic titles would be perfectly appropriate. Best, --Shirahadasha 03:48, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong Delete. This is the wrong format for such information. One of the problems is that the meaning of "rabbi" has shifted so much both historically and semantically over time, and across different branches and movements within Judaism, that this list is going to end up generating more heat than light. An article on "rabbinic titles" with a few examples for each would be much better. --Metzenberg 05:30, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Otto4711, Shirahadasha, and Metzenberg seem to be missing the point that this list will never have hundreds of people on it (let alone tens of thousands). The list is not of rabbis (which list also exists, by the way) or of people called "Rabbi Smith" or of people called "the Rabbi" by their followers (as many rabbis were and are), but only of people called "the Rabbi" by the (Jewish) masses.—msh210℠ 07:56, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Eliyak. Kolindigo 18:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note: This debate has been included in the list of Lists-related deletions. -- Pax:Vobiscum 17:14, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The nominator cites no policy, and the others who do seem to have misunderstood the intention of the list. The article needs a better introductory paragraph and perhaps a rename, but I don't see anything that calls for deletion. Pax:Vobiscum 19:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • What "policy" is needed, I was being kind to it, but really it's a duplicate of List of rabbis or it should be part of the Rabbi article. But it has no merits as it stands. IZAK 20:05, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
      • Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but just to make this clear: we delete articles "based on policy and guidelines, not personal likes and dislikes" (Wikipedia:Deletion policy in a nutshell). As some others have already explained, the article is quite different in concept from List of rabbis, and your opinion that this content is more appropriate in the Rabbi article is just that, an opinion. I have nothing against such a merger per se, but our main discussion here is the deletion of the article. Pax:Vobiscum 20:41, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
        • Pax, sometimes things are so simple that policies don't come into the picture. Anyone who knows anything about this subject can tell it's full of errors, and that it could easily be merged into the very extensive and thorough List of rabbis which it mirrors. I was being kind by asking that it be renamed and reorganized as List of rabbinic roles and titles citing Category:Orthodox rabbinic roles and titles as a similar example. If it makes you happy, one can easily state that this article violates WP:FACT in many ways. IZAK 06:41, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
          • Perhaps you intended to link to something else, WP:FACT links to a wiki-project. Like I said, I have nothing against the article being renamed or merged (and I certainly have no objections to someone deleting factual errors in the article, if they exist). But what we do here in wp:afd is to debate "whether an article should be deleted" or not. Renames and mergers are editorial decisions that should be made on talk pages through consensus. Pax:Vobiscum 13:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per izak.רח"ק | Talk | Contribs 21:46, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and rename, for the use of this abbreviated nomenclature is notable--- and also confusing to those not familiar with it. DGG 23:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per Pax:Vobiscum 19:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC). —msh210℠ 20:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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