Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of events at T-Mobile Arena (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 07:10, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of events at T-Mobile Arena

AfDs for this article:

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Fails WP:NLIST. Far better known venues don't list every last event. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:11, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Lists and Nevada. Deltaspace⁴² (talk • contribs) 09:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Events-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 17:36, 27 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Not eligible for Soft Deletion. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:59, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete: I hate to suggest delete, because unlike most of these fluff list articles, this one is well-organized and well-sourced, and has fairly unambiguous inclusion criteria. But I don't see the events being discussed as a group as per WP:NLIST, at least that isn't included in the T-Mobile Arena article. WeirdNAnnoyed (talk) 15:41, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I see the argument for WP:NLIST, but I also fail to see how a list such as this requires comparison to say Sphere (venue). Conyo14 (talk) 20:13, 3 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I get that argument for WP:NLIST but I don’t see why time and time again, this is being considered for deletion. I’m feeling ClarityFriend is nominating these articles just for wanting it deleted. Rodrigo1198 (talk) 16:17, 4 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You haven't provided any rationale for your keep lvote. Your "feeling" about my motive (or that of "ClarityFriend", whoever that is) doesn't count. Also "time and time again" for two nominations, one over six years old? Clarityfiend (talk) 11:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as article creator. Nothing has changed since the previous AfD. A few more points:

T-Mobile is one of the more important venues, as the premier arena in the Entertainment Capital of the World, typically one of the top 5 highest-grossing large venues in the world, and probably the arena with the most nationally televised events other than maybe Madison Square Garden and Staples Center. A record of the events occurring there serves the encyclopedic purpose of being a sort of "slice of life" or zeitgeist view of what's happening in the entertainment and sports world in a certain period, similar to articles like 1967–68 United States network television schedule or List of Billboard Hot 100 top-ten singles in 1982.
This list can be seen as a subtopic of the main arena article. A discussion of the events a venue hosts is an essential part of the topic, as the events are the venue's raison d'etre and key to its notability. But a comprehensive discussion, even if it were trimmed down to only include the blue-link notable events, would take up a large part of the page and seem disproportionate. Hence the original need for a WP:SPINOUT.
The list serves a navigational purpose to tie together articles with a common key characteristic (location), even more important now that Category:T-Mobile Arena, which previously tied those articles together, has been deleted.
Even if there were a consensus that the complete list of events is non-encyclopedic, there are options short of deletion to reduce the list with more selective criteria. In the strictest form, it could list only standalone wiki-notable events (so it would mostly consist of UFC events, boxing matches, award shows, etc.). Or it could just exclude the more routine events that are "just another stop on a tour", which would basically eliminate all the concerts.

Toohool (talk) 12:54, 6 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Daniel (talk) 22:55, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep: Oh boy, NDRAFT. This seems to fulfil a useful navigation purpose. No prejudice against narrowing. ^Queen of _Hearts 04:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:NLIST, specifically due to the lack of discussion of this group by reliable sources.Esolo5002 (talk) 07:43, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails NLIST and I think meets WP:NOTDIRECTORY. I really thought this could be a keep as a WP:CLN list of notable events that happened at the location, but it is just a massive list of non-notable events, so CLN doesn't apply. There are no sources showing this has been discussed as a group, the sources for the individual events are routine mill news or promo about the individual events. Article meets NOTDIRECTORY, "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything in the universe that exists or has existed.", "Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit". // Timothy :: talk 05:33, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, there are dozens of standalone notable events in the list, including UFC matches, boxing matches, Pac-12 tournaments, award shows, etc. Toohool (talk) 15:08, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Final relist.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, NotAGenious (talk) 18:57, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a poor argument. Also, these are apples and oranges. Clarityfiend (talk) 20:30, 18 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure what you think you're rebutting. TimothyBlue said this could be kept as a list of notable events "but it is just a massive list of non-notable events". I was pointing out that that that's not correct, there are many notable events in the list. My point being, that this could be a substantial standalone list article even if it were limited to notable events. Toohool (talk) 17:02, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Keep the article is well sourced.XavierGreen (talk) 02:16, 19 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: this is exactly what WP:NOTDIRECTORY is about. A page that has to, by its very nature, be updated every week to stay accurate is no longer an encyclopedic article, it's a schedule. Owen× ☎ 22:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.